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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

03-10-2011 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
LOL, who are these lawyers? You think they have a bias? it has been proven beyond fact that accepting money over phone or internet for any gambling purpose is illegal. You can try all you you want to say poker is all skill (it's not) and that sites that hide offshore are within the law (they aren't). Enjoy that Kool Aide it's not going to last much longer. As for Monteroy he may be a nice little boy and report all your winnings but from the sounds of his posts and his sympathizing with people who are breaking the law (albeit safe from any prosecution) leads me to believe otherwise. In fact I would be willing to be many online players dodge taxes as their is no way to track any of the money. Something that will also be ending soon. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Of course you can show us these facts right? Link please.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:10 PM
Since poker isn't my main source of revenue, i don't report my winning
I'm breaking the law?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
LOL, who are these lawyers? You think they have a bias? it has been proven beyond fact that accepting money over phone or internet for any gambling purpose is illegal. You can try all you you want to say poker is all skill (it's not) and that sites that hide offshore are within the law (they aren't). Enjoy that Kool Aide it's not going to last much longer. As for Monteroy he may be a nice little boy and report all your winnings but from the sounds of his posts and his sympathizing with people who are breaking the law (albeit safe from any prosecution) leads me to believe otherwise. In fact I would be willing to be many online players dodge taxes as their is no way to track any of the money. Something that will also be ending soon. So enjoy it while it lasts.
Poker is quite obviously a skill game. You having no skill at it is not my fault.

Offshore sites may or may not be within U.S. law. Some people think they are, others think they aren't. There has been no definitive court ruling on this subject.

I'd say it is proven beyond a fact that sports betting over the wire is illegal (though to be honest sports betting could be considered skill gambling also .... courts seem to have not adopted that).

I'd imagine that you are right in that a decent number of online poker players do not report their winnings on taxes. That said I do not need to enjoy it while it lasts because I am not one of them. I report everything.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlogic
Since poker isn't my main source of revenue, i don't report my winning
I'm breaking the law?
Well, yes you are. Everybody is supposed to report all winning gambling sessions as gross income even if gambling is just a hobby. However, if you decide to take itemized deductions you can deduct losing gambling sessions.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Well, yes you are. Everybody is supposed to report all winning gambling sessions as gross income even if gambling is just a hobby. However, if you decide to take itemized deductions you can deduct losing gambling sessions.
U.S. Tax Info Thread:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...ts-faq-740589/
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Well, yes you are. Everybody is supposed to report all winning gambling sessions as gross income even if gambling is just a hobby. However, if you decide to take itemized deductions you can deduct losing gambling sessions.
a c'mon i was waiting for BOP to respond to this.

(soft answer for you)
And sorry we don't have the same tax law ;P
Hobby = windfall
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp
I believe there is some sort of an X value attached to every player on some of the sites. I think someone in this thread explained this theory some time ago, and it makes a lot of sense. This value determines if the cards will help you or help your opponent and changes all the time. Deposits, cashouts, winnings, losing ++ determines the X value. But the x value will be different in the different stakes and games.

A new player on a site starts with a high X value. It is important that he/she can win at start to get a feel of what winning is like. If a player deposit 100 bucks and lose it right away, he are less likely to deposit more than if he first wins 200 bucks and then lose it. Win one time, and everyone will think they can win again. This is very obvious something that the sites can make a lot of money doing.

And the sites want the monies shuffled around much as possible, of course. The good players run worse than the bad players, on average.

The site wont get caught doing stuff like this by studying x million hands or taking large sample size because the system will fix itself so it wont get caught. If you know what I mean. Thats easy to do and prove.

We have to look for patterns, because patterns exist.

They make more money this way, and to "catch" them you would need lot of people and great logistic and all that. And you probably would have to do it "hidden" from public as well.

Note: I saw patterns before I figured out why it could happen. Even though its not really written in that way. I am always concious about "looking for patterns", because I do know how the mind can work against you when trying to see what is happening. But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about what I have seen. rity What I am not so sure about is if others "were me" would notice the same things equally. I dont think so, because the majority of the players completely deny the chanses of site being rigged. They believe the site wouldnt earn anything rigging it, and therefore why do it. Also with so many others playing online poker together with the sites telling you they are regulated and tested and all that, its very hard to believe otherwise even if you see strange things.

And also, you guys shouldnt berate everyone who thinks that online poker can be rigged. You dont know that, only because someone studied 5 million hands or because the sites say they are tested/regulated doesnt mean it cant be rigged. There are many ways to rigg a site, and there are many ways to profit from it.

Well, that was my thoughts. They are many months old, but I just never wrote it because its so hard for me to explain in English.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER. THOSE "MAJORITY OF PLAYERS YOU SPEAK OF ARE SHILLS FOR THE SITES OR TIED FINANCIALLY TO THE SITES IN SOME WAY. THAT IS WHY YOU KEEP GETTING THROWN OFF OF WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW TO BE TRUE.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Poker is quite obviously a skill game. You having no skill at it is not my fault.

Offshore sites may or may not be within U.S. law. Some people think they are, others think they aren't. There has been no definitive court ruling on this subject.

I'd say it is proven beyond a fact that sports betting over the wire is illegal (though to be honest sports betting could be considered skill gambling also .... courts seem to have not adopted that).

I'd imagine that you are right in that a decent number of online poker players do not report their winnings on taxes. That said I do not need to enjoy it while it lasts because I am not one of them. I report everything.
Poker is part skill part luck. You know it I know it. Just because you recite the same propaganda to try to make offshore sites legal doesn't make it so. Have another glass of Kool Aide. Also the reason there is no court rulings is there is no courts. These sites are on land that aide and collude with them. Since they pay off and employ people. So spare us yet another baseless talking point.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:37 PM
BANONLINEPOKER, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US WHO KNOW THESE SITES ARE A SCAM. STAY THE **** OFF OF THEM. JUST LIKE DRUG DEALERS, THE ONLY WAY TO SHUT THEM DOWN IS TO TAKE AWAY THEIR INCOME. VERY EASY. DO IT!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-10-2011 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER. THOSE "MAJORITY OF PLAYERS YOU SPEAK OF ARE SHILLS FOR THE SITES OR TIED FINANCIALLY TO THE SITES IN SOME WAY. THAT IS WHY YOU KEEP GETTING THROWN OFF OF WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW TO BE TRUE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
BANONLINEPOKER, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US WHO KNOW THESE SITES ARE A SCAM. STAY THE **** OFF OF THEM. JUST LIKE DRUG DEALERS, THE ONLY WAY TO SHUT THEM DOWN IS TO TAKE AWAY THEIR INCOME. VERY EASY. DO IT!


The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
it has been proven beyond fact that accepting money over phone or internet for any gambling purpose is illegal. You can try all you you want to say [...] that sites that hide offshore are within the law (they aren't).
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
Just because you recite the same propaganda to try to make offshore sites legal doesn't make it so. Also the reason there is no court rulings is there is no courts. These sites are on land that aide and collude with them. Since they pay off and employ people. So spare us yet another baseless talking point.
...wut?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlogic
a c'mon i was waiting for BOP to respond to this.

(soft answer for you)
And sorry we don't have the same tax law ;P
Hobby = windfall
I wish the country I lived in treated it that way.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
BANONLINEPOKER, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. JUST LIKE THE REST OF US WHO KNOW THESE SITES ARE A SCAM. STAY THE **** OFF OF THEM. JUST LIKE DRUG DEALERS, THE ONLY WAY TO SHUT THEM DOWN IS TO TAKE AWAY THEIR INCOME. VERY EASY. DO IT!
Rofl you don't have enough self-discipline to stay away
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
Poker is part skill part luck. You know it I know it. Just because you recite the same propaganda to try to make offshore sites legal doesn't make it so. Have another glass of Kool Aide. Also the reason there is no court rulings is there is no courts. These sites are on land that aide and collude with them. Since they pay off and employ people. So spare us yet another baseless talking point.
Everything is "part skill, part luck". Owning a restaurant, baseball, walking across the street, everything.

The fact is that poker is a skill game with a very large amount of variance. I'd imagine that you are a recreational poker player who is bad at it and therefore you don't really play that much and you do poorly. Maybe you think how much you play is a lot, but I doubt that it actually is.


And there are lots of courts in the U.S (I was talking about U.S. courts by the way so I guess you should go back and re-read since you somehow thought I was talking about courts somewhere else.) None of them (I mean U.S. courts) have made definitive rulings on online poker sites offering games to U.S. citizens. (Washington State is the exception where it is pretty well agreed on that it is illegal.) And even if that ruling were made at some point it would pretty clearly violate WTO rulings (not that the U.S. isn't already in violation of these WTO rulings already anyway).






P.S.

There's no "e" in Kool-Aid.

Last edited by Lego05; 03-11-2011 at 12:25 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Where the internet legally occurs is very much up for debate. Two players in the U.S., servers in Canada, a corporation under the laws of Antigua and Barbuda. I have to imagine that there would be arguments all over the place about jurisdiction .... but I don't want to do any research and come up with all of the various arguments.

Also I'll admit I'm more into the civil side of things, but just because something happens in a foreign country does not necessarily mean that a suit can't be brought in a U.S. court (a lot of times a big factor that makes that hard is that the person or entity you want to sue is in some other country but that's not the case here). It could be different for criminal actions ... I'm not sure .... but I would think there would still be an argument to make if one wanted to try.


And as for your lunacy statement: Yes, I agree with you. I do not expect the U.S. will want to attempt to prosecute Hamilton at any point.
Yes, it is completely different for criminal cases....and a civil case can be brought by anyone cheated. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
on a separate note, I really think Nfuego needs to see a doctor. Oh crap, he'll just come in here and say "wrong".
Incorrect.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlogic
Since poker isn't my main source of revenue, i don't report my winning
I'm breaking the law?
Depends where you live.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER. THOSE "MAJORITY OF PLAYERS YOU SPEAK OF ARE SHILLS FOR THE SITES OR TIED FINANCIALLY TO THE SITES IN SOME WAY. THAT IS WHY YOU KEEP GETTING THROWN OFF OF WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW TO BE TRUE.
Repeating the same lies over and over again does not make them true.

This applies even if you shout the lies in BLOCK CAPITALS.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
Poker is part skill part luck.
That depends on the number of hands you are assessing to make the distinction.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 03:39 AM
^^^^ Whenever you have a moment, Mike.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
LOL, who are these lawyers? You think they have a bias? it has been proven beyond fact that accepting money over phone or internet for any gambling purpose is illegal. You can try all you you want to say poker is all skill (it's not) and that sites that hide offshore are within the law (they aren't). Enjoy that Kool Aide it's not going to last much longer. As for Monteroy he may be a nice little boy and report all your winnings but from the sounds of his posts and his sympathizing with people who are breaking the law (albeit safe from any prosecution) leads me to believe otherwise. In fact I would be willing to be many online players dodge taxes as their is no way to track any of the money. Something that will also be ending soon. So enjoy it while it lasts.
wrong
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
Poker is part skill part luck. You know it I know it. Just because you recite the same propaganda to try to make offshore sites legal doesn't make it so. Have another glass of Kool Aide. Also the reason there is no court rulings is there is no courts. These sites are on land that aide and collude with them. Since they pay off and employ people. So spare us yet another baseless talking point.
wrong
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
wrong
Agreed.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Everything is "part skill, part luck". Owning a restaurant, baseball, walking across the street, everything.

The fact is that poker is a skill game with a very large amount of variance.
Are you a stand-up comedian?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-11-2011 , 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
Are you a stand-up comedian?
Are you Steve's brother?

Would you care to explain why you think that Lego05's perfectly reasonable comment was in some way comical?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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