There are only two ways to get knocked out of a tourney.

1. You get your money in good and get sucked out on.

2. You get your money in bad and lose.

Constantly losing a flip, or a 70/30 or whatever in the late stages of a tourney is not "running bad". If you are a good player, more often that not you should be getting sucked out on to get eliminated.

(I hope thsee last few posts are directed at Donko, rather than me...)

Mine are.

Yes, they are

We talked about the different shuffle combinations for poker sites. If there are sites that have the whole deal dealt out before the hand action begins, Is it possible by any means to have a program that can "hook" and see the cards that are going to come?

I'm not a programmer, nor have I taken any Statistics classes (although some poker books could probably count as one ), so I'm sure someone can give a better explanation.

But yes, that is possible. If the program knows how the deal is randomized, and can emulate the randomness. For example, if the deal is randomized based on the current time and the program is able to synchronize its clock with the shuffler's, then the program will be able to produce the same results as the shuffler.

Fortunately, most, if not all major sites use shufflers based on things that are virtually impossible to emulate, AFAIK.

Thank you sir. I appreciate the input. I'd agree that the major sites would keep that from happening...

There are two ways of doing this:

1) Figuring out the shuffle, and replicating it. This happened at PlanetPoker, and is described in the FAQ of this forum. I assume that there's no legitimate online poker site that uses such a method of shuffling. Some random site like Facebook Poker or something might do this, but I have no idea. It's not difficult to overcome this risk.

2) Getting access to the cards that have been shuffled. This would be another horrendous security hole, especially given that it is so easy to avoid... the server has no need to send the cards to the various clients until the right time, so they simply don't. In other words, the PokerStars server doesn't even tell your computer what the cards of the other players are until showdown... the information doesn't even exist on your PC until that time, so there is no way to deduce this.

ANY site that did this would have to be absolutely terrible. It wouldn't just be possible to figure out the cards of the other players, it would be EASY.

It should also be pointed out that this was 10 years ago when online poker was in its infancy, and the flaw was only discovered by a professional security lab. As far as anyone knows it never made it into the wild before it was corrected, and true RNGs became the standard soon after.

Yep. I agree totally.

Yep.

I don`t think it is rigged in the way other think it is, i just rather play at some rooms and hate others (fullTILT).At Stars for ex. the cards are shuffled at the begining of the hand, but at FT at every street if i`m correct. Why not use the same RNG.
Conclusion - i F***ing hate FT

Perhaps you can explain how the shuffle method makes a difference. Incidentally, using the same RNG wouldn't change this, you could do both methods with the same RNG. And neither site allows rabbit hunting.

.

I think this effect is more psychological than anything else. There is a certain fatalistic feeling associated with a prearranged shuffle: as, for example, live. There can be a comfort in thinking that once the shuffle is done, the results (at least card wise) are predetermined.

With a continuously shuffling deck, that comfort is taken away. You simply don't know what would have happened had you acted differently. Taken a half second more to think about a hand. Taken longer to place your bet, rather than fold.

It makes no difference practically, or from an ev perspective, but I can see how it could make some people uncomfortable and admit to feeling that at times as well.

This is true, and I posted a rambling philosophical post a while back about whether we really understand randomness well enough to say with certainty that it results in exactly the same set of outcomes. We can prove mathematically that this so, but it can take some time to be at peace with it. That's just our human perception bias. My mildly sarcastic post was mainly because I was responding to a statement that had "rigged" in the first sentence and then compared shuffling methods.

@Venividivici - I do understand the discomfort when you first play with a continuous shuffle. Rest assured that it makes no difference, and since you don't get to rabbit hunt, you forget about it soon enough. Don't attribute results to it, that is coincidence.

You do realize that "source code" is basically something written and just translates what the computer reads to what a human can read. PS is in no way letting anyone outside to inspect the servers and to make sure the RNG and software you think is legit is being used in it's cash games. The servers are guarded and nobody can get to them.

Why do you just make stuff up?

Fortunately, the strict legislation that regulates PokerStars has thought of this eventuality. You can read it at http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/gambling/...ionact2001.pdf under Section 16, where it gives the regulator rights to enter the PokerStars premises at any time.

He's just a xenophobe, ignore him. He hates, ahem, Zionists.

Owned.

Anyone who blindly believes that a site wouldn't ever tweak some software to make a few more million dollars a year, is stupid. I know lots of people who would do almost anything for 10,000.00 more a year, and i don't even think there is any consequence for any company that does change there software to induce action. I still play all the time

I think this is a reflection on the people you know, not a reflection on online poker operators.
But there are consequences for the legitimate sites.

For example, I work for an online poker operator. If I played a role in fiddling the RNG, then I expect that I would go to jail.

anyone who blindly believes that your mother didn't screw dozens of men before being impregnated with you to make a few more hundred dollars is stupid.

Kinda harsh, don't ya think? Especially when he's got a point. Anyone who blindly believes anything is at best, gullible.

then I hope he brings his own scale to the grocery store to make sure the pound of beef he's paying for isn't 9/10 lb. and maybe he should put his gasoline in a 5-gallon can before putting it in his gas tank to be certain he isn't actually paying for 4.95 gallons. perhaps it would be prudent to run DNA tests to prove he wasn't switched at birth in the hospital.

if you live your life under the impression that everyone is out to screw you out of an extra nickel every chance they get then interacting with society isn't for you. however, if you know someone is screwing you - prove it. until then, it's mental illness.

Sorry, I have been away from this discussion.

I think I was talking specifically about structures. If those started to shorten up and become less advantageous, I would not play at that particular site. I would look for a site that has better structures. I am assuming that a lot of players would do the same.

As it pertains to the possibility of rigging, you would not know if the tournaments were being sped up artificially unless you had proof. You could only hypothesise. No one has proven this up to this point in time. So a site would probably not lose nearly as much business outside of players deciding that what they have found in their experience being enough to keep them away.