As of yet, I don't have any proof, just suspicion. I really don't see the point in defining which site it is, if I can prove the unfair deal, you will know, and if I can't prove it, it clearly doesn't matter. Furthermore the games are soft and the software is decent. I really don't want to harm them in any way if their deal is fair.

because an audit isn't just about the RNG it is people going in and looking through files and seeing what is going on there. The 'testing' is for the RNG. That is different, of course they could switch it back, but unless somebody looks at their operations then we'll never know.

Call up the Pokerstars auditors, they will tell you the testing they did was LIMITED meaning that it wasn't a complete test.. so it could have been rigged from the beginning with these two 2003 tests just limited yet referred to endlessly.

Call them and ask yourself.

in regards to the bots, there are players 'names' that are in every single tournament how exactly is that possible, never sleep?

Two unrelated questions:

Why would sites not strongly encourage, or even support, efforts of players like IndianaV8 who has accumulated a billion or so hands and is actively obfuscating the hands such that they cannot be used for opponent profiling, but more for simple data analysis? He's even restricting access to them to make it even less likely that a motivated grinder would be able to even attempt to try to use them for profiling.

Also, I was just browsing the last few pages. Some people mentioned rigging being 'illegal'. Under what law and jurisdiction would rigging the games be illegal? Russ Hamilton cheated in a very direct manner doing nothing short of directly stealing players' money and even he hasn't been charged with anything. So far as I know no police were never even involved at any stage of that incident. The only possible punishment of rigging would seem to be judged in the court of public opinion. But again, AP/UB/Cereus show that court is somewhat lacking in clout. Either way, it seems simply disingenuous to imply that rigging would be a criminal offense. Toto, I don't think we're in Vegas anymore.

Give us a few examples. I call bs.

Well after checking over your exhaustive list of these names, I can't really argue with you. Refreshing to see someone post evidence to back themselves up, and not just spout random bull**** that's easily provable yet they don't prove it.

FTP is rigged IMO

not surprising he didn't provide examples... these guys come on here trying to sound intelligent and then they bury their credibility with a simple line of bs like that

I mean something like that would be soooo easy to investigate.

You've made your opinion clear on numerous occasions. My opinion that you're dumb remains as well, as long as we're going to restate the obvious.

Game audits are done to help the sites figure out if they're dealing fairly, as much as financial audits are done to help companies figure out if they're reporting their finances correctly. They're done for one reason: integrity and conformance to regulation. In Nevada, for example, Group 1 casinos (casinos with annual gaming revenue of 3million+) not only have all of their RNGs routinely audited, but are also subject to unannounced and even covert audits.

Of course we don't have anything like this with current online poker since the industry is effectively unregulated, and so you're here defending a prescheduled limited audit performed 5 years ago by arbitrary hand-picked third parties as acceptable. It's certainly better than nothing but not a practice that I think is worth defending.

Lets pretend they have not been audited in a single way ever. What still fails the common sense test is that the software is being secretly manipulated by secret people who keep the secret for I assume hundreds or thousands of sites, many of which no longer exist.

This is not a blanket statement that all is rainbows and unicorns, and in fact this industry has a lot of problems. Many small rooms and casinos stopped paying out cashouts. Many (ipoker for instance) have bot issues, that are not properly handled. Many (like crypto in the day) had people who entered tourneys with multiple accounts. Many have poor customer support. That list can go on to include issues like collusion, player to player fraud and a whole host of other things.

Those are all real basic problems that can be on any of the sites and they are very valid reasons to choose to play or not play on particular rooms.

Riggedologists go way past that though and start seeing deliberate acts of evil directed toward them, which again fail the common sense test. Are all rooms doing this? If so, how have the thousands of programmers, managers and others aware of this not come forward , even from the rooms that shut down? Why do they always pick on losing, bad players (who think they are good)?

While it is sort of fun seeing all of the fanciful and whimsical and often times deeply paranoid beliefs many have, the problem is that they distract from actual real problems in this industry. All of those craving some type of undefined "audit" will never be satisfied no matter who does an audit and how often. The sites will always be rigged against them in their mind, even though they will never be able to prove it. To deal with them is basically a waste of time, because their paranoia will never change. Ever.


The availability of data, and the competitive market place do a lot to keep the rooms in check. This is why many, MANY rooms have vanished recently. They could not compete in a maturing industry. This business is like any other where the smart and strong and efficient will do well, and those that fall behind will not. Simple economics, nothing more.

By the way, pretty much all industries have paranoid people who think there are dark forces at work.

McDonalds:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com..._bloodline.htm

Think this involved lizard people so bonus points

Burger King:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO4ND1pfw1w

This may involve Lizard People as well! That King guy is a bit creepy.


Microsoft/Apple:

http://theappleblog.com/2007/02/06/p...piracy-theory/

No lizard people, though Gates kind of looks like one.

Walmart:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ell.html?cat=3

Disney:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...iminal-erotica

Maybe animated lizard people make an appearance


GM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_A...eetcar_scandal


Welcome to the real world, filled with the equivalent of riggedologists in every industry. Online poker just happens to have a nice thread for them all

Why is it I get all the good luck in freerolls but increaasingly bad luck in cash games the higher stakes the worst.

Latest holding QQ Jack high flop so worth a bet I get called figure he has jacks or maybe 2 pair, I notice a possible straight is on he raises the turn I call and hit QQQ on the river.
I think sod it, I'mall in as I am pot commited anyway and ofcourse he flops the 100-1 straight which combines with my otherwise nuts QQQ.

Let me see if I understand. Because you have worse results the higher stakes you move up, you attribute that to the site being rigged? Seriously, this latest crop of riggedologists...


I assume this is a bad beat story, though it is hard to make any sense of it. Pretty sure you did not lose to a 100-1 situation no matter what the hand was or how it played, but pretend math is nothing new for those who practice riggedology so good work.

If English is your primary language, you have other issues you may wish to address before cracking the non-freeroll rigged code against you.

All the best.

You raise some good poiints in your post, I used to play at crypto and I knew people could have mutliple accounts, as one guy admitted to it an I could tell from the disproportionate number of 'new' players and scarcity of regulars despite me playing at the same times in the same games.It was clear many 'knew' my game, I did take advantage of this by switching from passive to aggresive. I also notice 'bot' like play at ipoker, to many tight players at low stakes etc..


But what this does show is players are willing to cheat, and players are people an poker sites are run by people thus there are cheats at every poker site. Business peoplep tend to be by their very nature cheats.

There reason why managers and programmers don't come forward is because either they don't know about it or are involved in it, there is the added incentive of not losing your job/career.

As time goes by people (workers) at sites get to know each other socially
and no doubt begin to discuss how they could rig games down the pub or what ever. All it takes is a few key people, a programmer, a manager and maybe a security person (assuming they have one) and they have a license to print money.

It is almost inevitable that cheating will evolve.

Why doesn't a site care about multiple accounts? Well half of them probably belong to the staff and of course staff can easilly delete all traces of their old accounts etc...

It's all so easy, cheating will happen, do the management care?
No of course not, so long as they are getting paid they don't give a toss.

shut up

No I said I get more 'bad luck' at higher stakes, I never make any draws yet I make the expected percentage in free rolls etc...

I am not sure what your language is but riggedologists si not in any recognised dictionary and you are the only person in the history of the internet to use it as google clearly shows. One - Nill.

1. The Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker Scandal
2. Bots
3. Hackers
4. Collusion
5. No regulation cause these sites are in bum**** nowhere
6. Big Stack miracles in Tourneys
7. Short Stack miracles in Cash Games
8. Money Laundering
9. Mafia connections
10. Countless Payout Delays
11. Cash Out Curse/Doomswitch
12. Superusers
13. Players using multiple accounts

There's no proof any of this rigged! What a joke!
I wonder if some of you nonrigtards are affiliated to these sites.
There's always about 3-5 of you on every rigged thread on every poker forum.

Oh cool, so you're keeping track of it and have graphs to post, right?
All have nothing to do with rigging. Which sites are unregulated? Neat. Others have proposed the exact opposite theories, though, so you guys are gonna have to work something out. ...which again has nothing to do with rigging. Probably has just as much evidence for it as against it. On 2 sites (same network), that was caught fairly quickly with a little thing called "evidence". Again, has nothing to do with rigging.
And there's always about 3-5 rigtards on every forum. Neat.

NFuego20 cut me down with his well crafted arguement.

Bad beat stories aren't proof, they're just annoying.

Especially since that hand probably wasn't really a bad beat, just "omg I has a set!".

There are millions of players who think it's rigged and about 3-5 on you on every forum.

Chance of a pocket pair 17-1, a high pocket pair giving the highest set is about
50-1 chance of making a such a set thus about 250-1.
Combine that with the chance of someone flopping a set (about 50-1)
Gives about 12,000-1.


Combine that with the frequency of similar crap and well you get the picture.

You do math in a creative, non mathematical way. Kind of like abstract art. This may help explain your bad "luck" at the game overall.

Do I need to mention that I got 2 Omaha hands in a row and the odds of them happening in that exact order were about 1 trillion to 1? Meaningless math can be fun.


This is just a cynical, paranoid view of the world. Do you assume every person in every business is a crook? If you hate business that much then you can move to a more non-capitalist nation I suppose. Playing poker seems an odd choice for someone who hates business/capitalism.

Many have lost their jobs by now as their poker rooms collapsed. Why have they not told yet? Are they still worried about losing their job that they already lost?

So your proof of hundreds of sites being corrupt is that a few people can talk about it at a pub? OK. They are lucky not a single person overheard the chat, nor that any of these pub guys ever leaked their valuable information.

Even after many lost their jobs.

No logic gaps in that.


This is called being paranoid.


This is called being REALLY paranoid.

See, now this is something a guy at a pub would say.

A drunk guy.

Who is paranoid about the world.

All the best.

Not necessarily. Deploying system driven wining bot accounts which as you know would be a trivial software engineering exercise would increase the revenue without increasing actual count of depositing users. Taking 5% from every tournament by allocating that amount to the bot accounts would result in significant additional revenue for the sites, extra profit in the range of tenth of millions of dollars.

It is certainly one of the strongest arguments against a rigged system and a very valid point. Having said that, only 1-2 senior level software engineers needs to be involved with such rigged implementation. Being an imaginative software engineer, I can certainly imagine a system where not even the senior who responsible for the data layer needs to be involved, and the rigged code segment can be isolated to the software module that implements the business logic of card distribution and player allocation to tables. We can draw a class diagram easily to demonstrate that such modular design is possible, in fact modular design would be the most sensible for a complex enterprise application such as the PS system.
Additionally, the Madoff types of people are very good at implementing rigged systems and keep the secrecy as it was demonstrated by Madoff, and since the owner of PS the IBM veteran senior programmer is a Madoff type of origin I have to assume that the secrecy issue would be solved. But, you are right and the point was valid, the secrecy is issue in implementing rigged operation.

I will try think scenarios for the proof of concept rigged system and I hope you will be able to spend some time to let me know whether such design would really modify the expected statistical values.