The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
04-15-2009
, 05:30 PM
Quote:
the player who got beaten by the supersuser on the final table , the one who requested the hand history and got the lot
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .
how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?
phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug
the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?
while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right
rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )
millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint
a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?
a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?
and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats
chess computer in 2003
Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.
In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second
The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )
so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so its all possible
i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day
untill i start believing otherwise
just my 4 cents )
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .
how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?
phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug
the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?
while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right
rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )
millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint
a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?
a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?
and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats
chess computer in 2003
Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.
In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second
The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )
so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so its all possible
i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day
untill i start believing otherwise
just my 4 cents )
Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.
2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.
This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?
04-15-2009
, 05:47 PM
04-15-2009
, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Maybe, you should have looked a little deeper into this.
2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.
This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?
2+2 (thanks to a few key posters) was the MAJOR reason the Absolute scandal was uncovered. The hands were analyzed and it showed a statistical impossibility (or as close as it gets) in POTRIPPERS favor. The key to the AP and UB scandal is that evidence was provided. Once it was the community helped uncover the injustice that was occurring.
This differs from most "OMG it's ROGGED" posts. DUCY?
yes i know it was busted from some great work by the forum members
what i meant if he didnt get all the hand histories and just had the one hand to post , the final one and said i think i got cheated would 90% of the collective response been get a tinfoil hat , the other guys just a donkey ?
it was only due to getting to see all the players hole cards that it was proved and because it was such a big torni that it mattered more
if a player showed 10 $1 sng from his poker tracker where he got busted out as a 90% favorite on the turn 10 times and said im being cheated or its rigged im quite sure he would just get sent to the local shop to buy some tinfoil and duct tape
no matter how many times or how many stats we look at poker tracker , we will never know the correct % of odds
if someone gets his trips busted by a runner runner 4 card
flush we say well that happens % of the time so its roughly correct but do the odds change if there was only 2
left in the deck and the rest where folded by other players ?too tired to think of maths at the moment , e = mc x flush x einstein factor square % * x rng + ego minus beer
oh im not having a go at anyone and not trying to be fact perfect ( besides deep blue thanks wiki ) i was just generalizing , so i hope i havent offended the masses !
too much poker and not enuff sleep ! gn and gl on the tables
04-15-2009
, 06:05 PM
04-15-2009
, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Please read the actual original threads from the UB/AB scandal, as it's obvious you have not. Just about everything you've said about them was wrong.
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12075548
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-stolen-99247/
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...umber=12075548
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-stolen-99247/
taken from these threads .......
people are still bagging the errm superuser theory in those threads and that is what i meant
as i said my general chat was about the possibility of things could be easily rigged and the people who usualy suggest these things are trolled pretty hard even the ones that prove out to be correct !!!!
as i said i didnt mean to offend the masses and i bow down to you guys for catching these bastards , if we had them some rope and a pissed off racehorse we could take for a quick drag
i guess it was a bad way to start out my post about a computer like deep blue and i appologise humbly
04-15-2009
, 07:09 PM
04-16-2009
, 05:21 AM
04-16-2009
, 05:24 AM
04-16-2009
, 05:27 AM
04-16-2009
, 05:45 AM
04-16-2009
, 05:46 AM
Quote:
the player who got beaten by the supersuser on the final table , the one who requested the hand history and got the lot
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .
how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?
phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug
the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?
while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right
rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )
millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint
a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?
a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?
and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats
chess computer in 2003
Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.
In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second
The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )
so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so its all possible
i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day
untill i start believing otherwise
just my 4 cents )
if he would have just popped into a forum , said i think i was cheated or the guy could see my hole cards and posted the hand would he have been told , well it was just a bad player , its variance life is rigged etc get a tinfoil hat ?
that guy was so lucky to get full hand historys etc to prove he was right , otherwise it would have just been a joke at a potential sore loser , well you got beaten by donk get over it .
how many sites poker etc have been caught in some scandal or caught cheating now ?
1 or 2 or is it hitting 5 or 6 ?
phil helmuth getting a pot with the losing hand , if you where 4 or 6 tabling at the time would you have even notcied ? i know its not rigging but its a bug
the people who had the super user accounts where they even charged ? no? breaking what law in what island province ?
while this industry isnt regulated i wouldnt put it past anyone to be doing anything and i wouldnt degrade anyone who says it might be rigged or not right
rigging doesnt have to be as simple as aa vs kk , give a shorter stack top pair in a flop to overcards , give a shorter stack a flush draw etc
why do this ? in a torni with 5k players if no hands hit anyone for 2 hours there would be less players on the cash tables or joining other tornis etc
( this is just a possible theory not what im saying happens )
millionares get caught cheating the stock market ( why would a guy with 45 million dollars risk jail for another 2 million , simple its greed ) , insider trading , companies set up false businesses as tax shelters , big phone companies overcharging customers 5cents ( its worth a lot when you have 4 million customers ) bookmakers not declaring big bets to the tax office ( why would a bookie who makes 5 to 6 million a year hide a 200k bet from the tax office , greed ) cricket players losing ( lets not forget south africa ) players from india getting signals when to bowl a no ball for live betting its endless what people will do for money and having a lot of money doesnt make you a saint
a lot of people say why would a site risk its business to cheat when they would lose its customers ?
well i dont see ab or ub shut down ? people still play there even tho the ip was traced back to management ?
a lot of poker sites claim to have their rng checked by independant sources ok all good ? has any one actualy checked what happens between the rng and the table ?
and for anyone who says that its too hard or a computer or couldnt be used to rig so many hands on so many tables check out these stats
chess computer in 2003
Deep Junior, 2003
Kasparov played with 3D glasses in his match against the program X3D Fritz.
In January 2003, he engaged in a six game classical time control match with a $1 million prize fund which was billed as the FIDE "Man vs. Machine" World Championship, against Deep Junior.[58] The engine evaluated three million positions per second
The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so make a random rng , have one of these babies in between look at stack sizes agress factor position called bets players in hand and make a flop and turn comeout any way they wanted ?( the average player takes longer than 1 second to think if his checking or folding so my god this thing could calculate what 10 players would need on a flop to stay in )
so lets look at it this way
why would they do it ? greed
why would they chance it ? no retributions
can they do it ? The engine evaluated three million positions per second
so its all possible
i like online poker , but i prefer live play , and i will continue to say when a small stacks aces where rivered by the big stacks pocket 4s that ..well hes having a lucky day
untill i start believing otherwise
just my 4 cents )
04-16-2009
, 05:52 AM
04-16-2009
, 05:52 AM
However, your observation about Rek's speed of response and the mention of defence very clearly points to you being a sock puppet from one of our current obsessives who, having no rational argument to support the idea that the site are rigging hands, resorts to futile and wholly laughable attempts to try and discredit those who do put forward rational arguments by calling them shills.
Quote:
I just think that the program may be a little less than completely random. If the RNG uses external sources to generate a random deal, and it gets a similar reading as it did a few seconds ago, would it not deal a fairly similar hand?
04-16-2009
, 06:15 AM