So this is my interaction with GG Poker.

In between at one point they blocked my account claiming the ol' problems with gambling card as I wouldn't go away without an answer that makes sense, I am still waiting and scratching my head on this!

This is to ask is it me have I missed something? How can it be continuous shuffle but the rabbit cam is 100% true as it is when you someone folds that would change what the outcome would have been?

Or is it me?

They have as of yet not come back to me with any tangible understandable and logical reply that I can at least ok makes sense to!

This is a large number of emails and I am not sure I have them all as they seem jumbled, but it is enough to understand the crux. Manuel has not replied since we got to two possible scenarios, so I am posting here to try to understand if I am wrong or I am right?

The only editing I have done is my full name and email address!

1 of 9,577
Card shuffle?
Inbox
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

Jun 29, 2023, 3:42 AM (3 days ago)

to help@ggpoker.co.uk
Hi

Can I ask about the shuffle at GG Poker?

Is it already set when you start a hand the rest of the deal as it shuffle is finished and rest of the runout is already predeterminded, or is it being continually shuffled throughout a hand please?

Kind Regards

Simon
GGPoker Help UK

Jun 29, 2023, 3:43 AM (3 days ago)

to me
Hello Simon,

Thanks for contacting us, and if it's the first time, a thousand welcomes to GGPoker

Your query is now awaiting review from our help team.

In the meantime, our Help knowledgebase is available on the GGPoker website. The knowledgebase might help you in providing a quick answer to your query:

https://help.ggpoker.co.uk

For a brief guide on how to navigate the Help knowledgebase see: https://help.ggpoker.co.uk/article/2...o-ggpoker-help

Thanks for your patience, and thanks for your interest in GGPoker.

Regards,
GGPoker Community, Customer Support & Fraud Team
{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
GGPoker Help UK

Jun 29, 2023, 8:46 AM (3 days ago)

to me
Hello Simon,

Thanks for your email.

We can assure you GGPoker's RNG is 100% truly random.

The RNG is not predetermined each hand.

To elaborate, the fairness and integrity of our games is our stock in trade, and for the RNG to be skewed in any way would be detrimental to us.

Poker is never played against the house, and as such, the House has no vested interest in any one player winning over another.

It is that even and provably fair rng playing field which we provide to players, and it must be beyond reproach.

Any other issues, please don't hesitate to let us know

Best Regards,
Jack
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

Jun 30, 2023, 1:44 AM (2 days ago)

to GGPoker
Hi Jack

Thanks for your reply.

So to confirm the deck is constantly shuffled throughout the hand, it is not shuffled once like a live scenario and the cards set for that hand?

In other words it’s in a constant shuffle and when you provide action will change the card on any street as it’s constantly shuffling?

Is that correct?

Kind regards

Simon
GGPoker Help UK

Jun 30, 2023, 9:14 AM (2 days ago)

to me
Hi Simon,

Thanks for your reply.

The cards are shuffled continuously throughout the hand.

Let us know if there's anything else we can do for you.

Kind Regards,

Jack
GGPoker Support




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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

10:21 AM (2 hours ago)

to help@ggpoker.co.uk
Hi

Did you not receive my email or can not be bothered to let me know?🤔

I would like a true reply as to whether the shuffle is done before the flop and it is not continuously shuffled as the hand progresses as asked please?

Does it differ the runoout dependent on how long you take to action for example, are you understanding the question please?

If you do not totally understand please let me know rather than ignore me?

Kind Regards

Simon
GGPoker Help UK

10:30 AM (2 hours ago)

to me
Hi Simon,

Thank you for the email back.

Apologies if we didn't elaborate further on the matter previously.

Please note that the cards are shuffled throughout the round(s) regardless of player action - You can rest assured that the RNG is completely random as mentioned - The outcome is always unpredictable.

I hope that this helps to clarify.

As usual, feel free to let us know should you come across any other issues or concerns.

Kind Regards,

Manuel
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 5:21 AM EDT, Simon <simon500@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Did you not receive my email or can not be bothered to let me know?🤔
>
> I would like a true reply as to whether the shuffle is done before the flop and it is not continuously shuffled as the hand progresses as asked please?
>
> Does it differ the runoout dependent on how long you take to action for example, are you understanding the question please?
>
> If you do not totally understand please let me know rather than ignore me?
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Simon
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:13 AM EDT, GGPoker Help UK <help@ggpoker.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> The cards are shuffled continuously throughout the hand.
>>
>> Let us know if there's anything else we can do for you.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Jack
>> GGPoker Support
>>
>>
>>
>> The World's Biggest Poker Room
>>
>> Helpful places to visit.....
>> GGPoker Community on Reddit
>> GGPoker Twitter
>> GGPoker YouTube
>> FAQ
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 8:45 PM EDT, Simon <simon500@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jack
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>
>>> So to confirm the deck is constantly shuffled throughout the hand, it is not shuffled once like a live scenario and the cards set for that hand?
>>>
>>> In other words it's in a constant shuffle and when you provide action will change the card on any street as it's constantly shuffling?
>>>
>>> Is that correct?
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Simon
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

10:48 AM (1 hour ago)

to GGPoker
So if it is as you claim continuously shuffled how can there be a rabbit cam showing what cards you would have had? That would change based on your answer and not be an exact science, therefore I believe you are proving you are lying for whatever reason? Explain this somehow if you can?

And I know you are just working there and are just spouting whatever you are told, but it's nonsense.

Because after the short time I have played your site. Sadly I can actually say out loud what will happen to an amazing accuracy as the programming is not even slightly hidden. That or I have some kind of alien type skill and really should be a multi millionaire from poker through my reading abilities quite frankly!

I would love your site to be totally random but there is a lot more profit in certain outcomes I could elaborate.

You initially telling you immediately went into talking about the rng when that was never the question was also quite revealing, but that is not the reason.

I wonder how many people feel and can see it day in and out how your random is blatanly not?

Please let me know how a rabbit cam can show what would have happened, despite it being a continous shuffle, I am all ears?

Kind Regards

Simon.
GGPoker Help UK

10:53 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hi Simon,

Thanks for getting in contact again to reiterate your concern.

We urge your attention to our previous confirmations regarding GGPoker's RNG, which is above reproach and accepted by the famously stringent UKGC governing body.

Full game histories are located in PokerCraft. If there are any specific examples of discrepancies or provable issues, we'd be happy to review them upon submission of relevant proofs.

Thanks for your understanding,

Manuel
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 5:48 AM EDT, Simon <simon500@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if it is as you claim continuously shuffled how can there be a rabbit cam showing what cards you would have had? That would change based on your answer and not be an exact science, therefore I believe you are proving you are lying for whatever reason? Explain this somehow if you can?
>
> And I know you are just working there and are just spouting whatever you are told, but it's nonsense.
>
> Because after the short time I have played your site. Sadly I can actually say out loud what will happen to an amazing accuracy as the programming is not even slightly hidden. That or I have some kind of alien type skill and really should be a multi millionaire from poker through my reading abilities quite frankly!
>
> I would love your site to be totally random but there is a lot more profit in certain outcomes I could elaborate.
>
> You initially telling you immediately went into talking about the rng when that was never the question was also quite revealing, but that is not the reason.
>
> I wonder how many people feel and can see it day in and out how your random is blatanly not?
>
> Please let me know how a rabbit cam can show what would have happened, despite it being a continous shuffle, I am all ears?
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Simon.
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 5:29 AM EDT, GGPoker Help UK <help@ggpoker.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

11:11 AM (1 hour ago)

to GGPoker
So you have now no answer to how can you have a rabbit cam declaring what the cards would have been, when you have claimed twice by two different replies that the cards are a continuous shuffle?

This politician answer is pathetic. Answer the question please, how can it be continuous when the rabbit cam shows you what the run out is? You have messed up here haven't you? If not no deflection with nonsense as I am not interested in the gambling commission, who have no access to your source code and are as corrupt as bookmakers and the entire industry is.

I would say you have just admitted you are lying. Not you personally you are just at work, just your bog standard response has shown a flaw in actual fact related logic to the answer you are giving.

I literally can out loud say what will happen after playing on your site for less than two months. Either I am an alien with total out of this world physic ability who still can not win, or the pattern is not even hidden in plain site.

I think you are now bang to rights, unless you wish to answer the question without the usual claptrap about the gambling commission.

Please explain this continuous shuffle explanation and the rabbit cam only in the reply please?

Kind Regards

Simon


GGPoker Help UK

11:18 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hi,

Thank you for contacting GGPoker.

We’ve noticed that you’ve frequently contacted us in regard to the fairness of our games. As you may know, we are regulated by the UK Gambling Commission and our games are tested by BMM Test Labs as you can see on our random number generator page.

We would also like to reiterate that we have no vested interest in one player winning over another. Additionally, we encourage you to report any suspicious activity from other players to our Security team.

Considering these points, along with the frequency of contact you've initiated regarding this issue, we want to take a step back and make sure you are aware of your gambling habits, and that you stop gambling when the fun stops.

We are reaching out as we are concerned you may currently be being affected negatively by gambling. As a precaution, we have locked your balance until we hear back from you.

Can you please answer the below questions for us to review?

In the past 3 months, have you ever bet more than you could really afford to lose?
Has gambling or the thought of gambling ever caused you any health, financial or relationship issues, including stress or anxiety?
Do you ever find yourself chasing previous losses or playing for longer than you intended?


Please note that these questions are not intended to be accusatory of any wrongdoing. As a responsible operator, it is our duty to interact with players who may be at risk of experiencing gambling-related harm.

If you feel you are being negatively impacted by gambling, please know you are not alone and that we are here to help.

Kind regards and stay safe,

Manuel
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 6:12 AM EDT, Simon <simon500@gmail.com> wrote:
> So you have now no answer to how can you have a rabbit cam declaring what the cards would have been, when you have claimed twice by two different replies that the cards are a continuous shuffle?
>
> This politician answer is pathetic. Answer the question please, how can it be continuous when the rabbit cam shows you what the run out is? You have messed up here haven't you? If not no deflection with nonsense as I am not interested in the gambling commission, who have no access to your source code and are as corrupt as bookmakers and the entire industry is.
>
> I would say you have just admitted you are lying. Not you personally you are just at work, just your bog standard response has shown a flaw in actual fact related logic to the answer you are giving.
>
> I literally can out loud say what will happen after playing on your site for less than two months. Either I am an alien with total out of this world physic ability who still can not win, or the pattern is not even hidden in plain site.
>
> I think you are now bang to rights, unless you wish to answer the question without the usual claptrap about the gambling commission.
>
> Please explain this continuous shuffle explanation and the rabbit cam only in the reply please?
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Simon
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 5:52 AM EDT, GGPoker Help UK <help@ggpoker.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
Simon s <simon500@gmail.com>

11:38 AM (1 hour ago)

to GGPoker
Hahahaha wow this is so funny, you now block my account?

No I have zero problem with any gambling, I just have an issue with you claiming things that are not true.

Now you lock my account as a reply instead of explaining yourself, so you think that is how to deal with it?

Of course I have no problem with gambling at all. Zero issues at all.

This is how you work is it? Ban me for asking why you are lying? Very good Manuel lol.

I will reply to your questions as I am sure this is nothing personal , just you really care for my welfare so thank you for that if the case and I am being cynical?

In the past 3 months, have you ever bet more than you could really afford to lose? Absolutely not.

Has gambling or the thought of gambling ever caused you any health, financial or relationship issues, including stress or anxiety? None at all, I have a smile on my face even now.

Do you ever find yourself chasing previous losses or playing for longer than you intended? Absolutely not, never ever do I chase I play for fun and I still have fun despite your claims of a random game it is not affecting me in any negative way at all!

GGPoker Help UK

11:44 AM (1 hour ago)

to me
Hi Simon,

Thanks for your response.

It's great to hear that you're OK and currently playing at a sustainable level.

Should this change, or if you start feeling negatively affected by gambling, please let us know - we are always here to help.

Your account has now been reinstated and you should be able to access it now.

Thank you for being comprehensible of our action here, it is truly nothing personal.

Best regards,

Manuel
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

11:57 AM (48 minutes ago)

to GGPoker
Oh come on my lovely friend, I am asking a fair question which you have no answer for so you pull out the negatively affected by gambling card? hahaha

But thank you for unblockig it, you do make me laug

No I am asking a question of which you can not answer right? Or can you? It is a valid question asked with a smile and no anger at all. I wish I was not highly intelligen

I literally can see patterns that are blatant. You then claim it is fair and random and then claim about the shuffle. I then point out a good point if it is continously shuffling then how can you have a rabbit cam that is real showing the future that is not set in stone?

Anyway listen have a lovely day, I just play for fun. I am a decent live player, in fact you should sponsor me instead of Daniel Negreanu, he is rubbish!

Lots of love Manuel and Jack. I guess you have no reply to the reasonable question and have your hands on my balls with your blocking my account feature, magic!

xxxxx

Then you pull out the lock the account and think it is because I have issues with gambling or money and still do not answer it?

Come on Manuel, this culture of deleting whether it is social media or yourself is not the way to go
GGPoker Help UK

12:21 PM (24 minutes ago)

to me
Hi Simon,

Thank you for the swift reply back.

Please note that all procedures taken so far are done in virtue of complying with regulatory demands and are not at all to dismiss any claims or concerns.

We can only urge you to read carefully through all the previous emails - Please note that the rabbit hunt feature is only made available for players that fold their hands.

Please also have in mind that it would be illogical to assume that this feature is indicative of unfairness as it is solely for post-flop consultation and all players can see the same cards, meaning that there aren't any biases considered towards the cards shown.

Thank you once more for understanding.

Kind Regards,

Manuel
GGPoker Support



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{#HS:2287334073-2283446#}
On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 6:57 AM EDT, Simon <simon500@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh come on my lovely friend, I am asking a fair question which you have no answer for so you pull out the negatively affected by gambling card? hahaha
>
> But thank you for unblockig it, you do make me laug
>
> No I am asking a question of which you can not answer right? Or can you? It is a valid question asked with a smile and no anger at all. I wish I was not highly intelligen
>
> I literally can see patterns that are blatant. You then claim it is fair and random and then claim about the shuffle. I then point out a good point if it is continously shuffling then how can you have a rabbit cam that is real showing the future that is not set in stone?
>
> Anyway listen have a lovely day, I just play for fun. I am a decent live player, in fact you should sponsor me instead of Daniel Negreanu, he is rubbish!
>
> Lots of love Manuel and Jack. I guess you have no reply to the reasonable question and have your hands on my balls with your blocking my account feature, magic!
>
> xxxxx
>
> Then you pull out the lock the account and think it is because I have issues with gambling or money and still do not answer it?
>
> Come on Manuel, this culture of deleting whether it is social media or yourself is not the way to go
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2023 at 6:43 AM EDT, GGPoker Help UK <help@ggpoker.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
Simon <simon500@gmail.com>

12:32 PM (13 minutes ago)

to GGPoker
This is just ridiculous no other conclusion! come on Manuel let's analyse this with truth and intelligence shall we?

So you have just said it is only available to anyone folding their cards? This is not relevant at all though?

If it is a continuous shuffle then the rabbit cam is not possible is it?

Because if I did not fold at that exact time then with a continuous shuffle the cards would be different dependent on WHEN I or anyone else folds?

So based on evidence. We have only two possible logical factual truths?

1. The rabbit cam is fake.

2. The shuffle is not continous.

Perhaps you can tell me if I have missed another possible alternative?

If not which one is it please?

I still have no gambling issues and am enjoying this interaction and the fun aspect.

My questions are valid based on your replies we are down to those two scenarios?

1:15 PM (0 minutes ago)

to GGPoker
Ok I have posted this on a poker forum as you have not been able to answer my valid questions at all sadly.

Perhaps I have missed something somewhere somehow so I am asking the wider poker community.

We have no valid outcome to our interaction that I can say thanks I get it Manuel? What have I missed?

I have a feeling you yourself have now realised it is impossible to have both a continuous shuffle and a true rabbit cam that would show what would happen if I did not fold? As what happens when you fold using the continuous shuffle you claim would be different runouts every single time?

Kind Regards

Simon

The rabbit-cam is a pointless but arguably a fun feature that is absolutely irrelevant and basically meaningless to the hand that has already been completed.

Assuming the cards are shuffled continuously until called for by the software, you are right that it could be shown as any one of the forty or so undealt cards, depending on the time it was revealed to the first player who requested sight of it, but whether it showed you that you made a good or a bad fold doesn't affect anything at all except your enjoyment or otherwise of the game. However, it is highly likely that it wouldn't be the card that would have been dealt had the game continued, as the time of its reveal would almost definitely have been different. As I mentioned, it's only a "fun" but useless feature.

The important part that you either missed or didn't understand is where they wrote: "Please note that the cards are shuffled throughout the round(s) regardless of player action - You can rest assured that the RNG is completely random as mentioned - The outcome is always unpredictable."

Thanks for the reply.

So it may be a fun feature but it is a lie and that shows you that you can not trust this site at all.

The agents now ignore the question because they have found to be lying and have abslutely no answer now.

Why claim the shuffle is continuous and also have a rabbit cam then? They have refused to get back to me at all to explain themselves and you people who play on this site should be alarmed by this, it exposes them!

I am not sure if the last sentence is you being sarcastic or not thouogh?

Do you believe this site is random?

I would say there is zero chance it is from playing it. Not even 1% chance. It is so blatantly obvious and the patterns of losing are so predicatable in every mtt I play.

Just by playing it less than two months I know when I will lose and how, because it is a pattern in every single tournament I play. It is absolutely without doubt not random at all. And as the support will not either explain how they have a rabbit cam on a continuous shuffle that must be fake if that is true, then they can not be trusted at all can they?

I could quite easily record my play and tell you exactly when I will lose a hand and how at any given time. It is not rocket science to know this site does not play like a random deck.

It is a shame, but profit over rides integrity. I do not know if some players are even real or could also be house players/bots. But I have no evidence of that but I would not be surprised. What I do know is that by people getting knocked out quicker it equates to many more millions in profit per year for the company.

I asked them about the shuffle initially, hoping they would say once shuffled that is it done, then the cards are dealt. Soon as they claimed continuous shuffle I knew that was not true or the rabbit cam is a lie.

You can just say it is a fun feature. But it is a lie and a con, which sums up the company who now have nothing to say to me and tried to cancel me for questioning it!

I have never seen any proof that it isn't, but if I had, I would not play on it.

Please do that. Every player on the site would appreciate seeing the evidence that you can predict the fall of the cards before they are shown.

They are telling you it is a continuous shuffle and that the rabbit-cam is showing the random card the shuffle has reached after the millisecond you ask to see it. That seems reasonable when you are playing on a site that you know uses a continuous shuffle until a card has to be shown. Maybe ask them to label the button as, "Our Rabbit-Cam shows the next random card in the continuous shuffle as at the time of request to see it. Owing to the continuous shuffle used, it may not be the same card that would have been dealt if the hand had not completed"?

Otoh, as it's a "for fun" feature that very few people look at, (mainly because the players know that it's going to be one of the cards they would have needed to win if they had carried on with the hand, only, say, 9% of the time - not very enlightening), calling it just a rabbit-cam without any further definition is easier and acceptable to almost everyone who knows it's a continuous shuffle.

Why you think it matters that the rabbit may not be the same as a hypothetical runout which will never happen, let alone trying to out-debate a customer service employee is beyond me.