Yet another reason why players need to get more involved in the legislation process.

I have always felt much less secure with my funds on FTP mostly for their horrid customer service which is unacceptable considering how much money they handle.

Now for some reason their customers are getting money stolen from them. They have decided to point fingers and stick their head in the sand which shouldnt be surprising given their history of completely ignoring their customers.

I have played 500k~ hands there over the last year at 1/2-10/20 and will likely be pulling my money off their site to play on a reputable site if they don't begin to show that they are taking theft from their customers seriously.

If something bad happens and the major sites have to pull out of the states what site do you think will get you your money back and in a reasonable time period. I certainly wouldnt trust FTP to get it right.

I don't use a rakeback affiliate, and I have been hit by PMI. FTPDoug/Sean can deny it all they want, but FTP is the only site I've played on in over a year, and the $12 hits my checking account is taking match up with micro deposits I've made within the last year.

Going to be pretty easy to deny these guys a license if things aren't fixed, just print this thread off and mail it to the Nevada regulatory agencies. Also, since Nevada regulates Station Casinos, worth calling the regulators to discuss their new partners business practices.

Just saw this. So FTP had a security breach where banking info was compromised and you don't feel the need to inform your customers of that?

If you experienced a security breach in which banking information was compromised, I would think that you would inform your customers ASAP instead of letting them come to you after unauthorized transactions have hit their bank account and then hiding your head in the sand.

Just curious.....is this "PMI" showing on your bank statements? Mine have always shown "FTPayments". I just tried out the new account history option made available today on FT under requests. I received a nice Excel spreadsheet showing the names of all the processors, none of them shows PMI, but on my bank statements shows only the "FTPayments".

Does anyone know what the full legal name of the company "PMI" is?

Why does everyone assume the company is called PMI. When you get an ach merchant account, you can put pretty much any descriptor you want on your transactions.

If this is a legit breach of FTP's customer data, how silly do all the people who always say "dont worry about sneding your DL/doc sec #/personal information to FTP... its perfectly safe"

more importantly, how can FTP continue to request this information in the face of the fact that its obvious they cant keep it safe?

When you make a deposit, FT sends you a "details" email. The payment processor name is in that email and if the processor that shows up on your bank statement is different from that contained in their email, then I would worry.

I just spoke to a woman at the PMI number--probably my 20th try, and the first time they've answered the phone. She took my name, confirmed last 4 of my checking account, and said there had been an "error." She also said refunds for the 3 $200 transactions had been processed last Thursday (very doubtful), and that the money should hit my account by this Thursday (we'll see). I didn't even try to ask questions about the company.

FTP Sean, I'd like to echo the comments of others--your reply appears disingenuous at best. Either 1) FTP used a processor that had a different name (Western Clear?) that's now using the name "PMI" when stealing money; 2) A current or former FTP processor provided account info to PMI so they could steal; or 3) there was a direct security breach where account info stored by FTP was compromised. I imagine there may be other scenarios, but it can't be that hard to figure out what happened. As a start, FTP needs to acknowledge some responsibility and apologize to affected players.

a lot of random stuff but good info in this thread

http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-888-875-8035/8

so this happened before. and everyone reporting bad charges there plays on FTP.

So FTPsean, i guess my question is which of the following two statements are true:

1. This is a company that worked as a proccessor for FTP, and is now misusing the bank account numbers ft gave to them (this is what they claim)

or

2. This company not affiliated with FTP, and they compromised your security.

it really has to be one or the other.

Pretty clever scam......those that dont notice are out funds...go thru hoops to get your own money back

This is going to end with FT reimbursing all customers for the rogue withdrawals. Its just a matter of how much brand damage they want to self inflict before reaching this conclusion.

ding ding winnarr

This is exactly what I was going to post.

Seriously, we're all adults here. We're in business together, there should be honesty and transparency.

It does really have to be one or the other, you said above FTPSean that FTP has never contracted with this processor, so you're saying that FTP's security has been compromised?

If FTP's security was Indeed compromised, then isn't it their DUTY to alert their customers?

Please bring clarity to this situation.

I'll take that bet... we're talking about FT not PS.

Cant you just rat them out to the feds? Either for illegal withdrawals from your checking accounts (which the feds might not be so interested in) or for processing money for FTP breaching the UIGEA (which the feds might find very interesting)

Hopefully not a derail, but anyone aware of non US players being affected? Do FTP use more legit processors for UK/Euro players? Currently my bank will not let me deposit to FTP but will to other sites so maybe they realise things are dodgy with them.

This.

Either:
-They worked with PMI, directly or indirectly. PMI is scamming thousands of FTP players for a **** ton of money.
or
-PMI stole bank account information stored by FTP. FTP's security has been compromised and financial data of thousands of players is at risk.

Either way, I'm pretty disgusted at FTPSean's response claiming innocence. It has been made VERY clear that this is DIRECTLY linked to FTP transactions.

I'm amazed that this hasn't been getting more attention from 2p2. They've been scamming TONS of players, many more than just those who post on 2p2 obviously.

This is HUGE.

Exactly.

The problem isn't JUST that FTP's security has been (potentially) compromised.

It's the FACT that they would have been aware of this, and sat on the information. Identity theft and fraud is a very serious problem today. It used to be that with business, the customer is always right, maybe that model has changed. But you at least have to respect your customers, or watch them walk away in droves.

Blinky - I have asked for the NVG thread to be re-titled, as the current title doesn't really give any clue as to what is inside. If this gets done hopefully it will get people more interested.

You're absolutely right. This problem seems to only be growing, with the massive amounts of money they make, you'd think they'd really want to do more to keep players on their site rather than going elsewhere, even a little customer service goes a long way, haven't seen any from FT at all. I started playing in 2007 and never experienced any problems until 2010, 2011 seems to be looking much worse, definitely headed in the wrong direction....

Yeah, this definitely needs to be done. It looks like FTP isn't going to do **** about it until people start paying attention and asking more questions. It's ridiculous that they still haven't even taken responsibility for what is very clearly their doing.

I've been playing exclusively on FTP for ~2 years now (and paid tens of thousands in rake). The **** support and crashing, buggy software hasn't pushed me over the edge, but this PMI nonsense seriously is on a similar scale of UB/AP. I'm not paying another cent in rake until this has been cleared up.

It's unfortunate that we can't see exactly how much has been stolen so far.

To be fair to FTPSean, they may have never done business with either of the PMI brand names.

...but it does appear as though it's more than coincidence, as the number of impacted FTP poker players is way, way too high for us all to have been scammed by a separate, random, bank scammer. I mean, we didn't all use an e-check at the same other disreputable company...

I would be careful of anyone taking a moral attitude or stance in this case. All parties involved...the payment processor, Full Tilt Poker, and the individual players that used echecks in the USA ALL conspired to circumvent US law in getting around the UIGEA. Any unforeseeable actions/results could be seen as fruit of a posionous tree.

If full tilt does not do anything; thats their right. If you want to stop playing at full tilt; that is your right. Thats about all you could do. Its akin to criminials entering a pact with one another to defraud (this case circumvent UIGEA). If someone wants to take this to the government and not remain anonymous should be prepared to answer hard questions on why they could think they could skirt the same law they ask others to be accountible to.

Use your energy to get legislation passed for the USA...otherwise its a wild west atmosphere and play at your own risk

The odds that all of the PMI debits are the SAME as the FTP transactions, is mind-boggling.

I understand that it's like a Wild-West atmosphere, but if FTP wants to retain it's customers then they have to treat them with respect and do right by them.