I'm not shocked. I'm pointing out FTP's point of view. Everybody who has been giving out direct banking details to poker sites have been closing their eyes and praying against something like this. Assuming that FTP is an honest site, and for all their faults I believe they are, they are going to have to respond to this at some point. How much money is at stake though? We have no idea.

I hope the eventuality of all of this is NOT your average, non-online poker playing American thinking "people got their money stolen playing online poker." There are enough stigmas already.

We need legislation stat.

I couldn't agree more with what you said. For this problem to be this big. Some kind of assurance or even a warning to full tilt players or possible charges would go a long way. To know about the problem (which is an obvious assumption) and to not bother/care to warn the players tells alot about who they are....very bad business

Well that settles it, if it wasn't for the fact that I have to have an FTP account to stake I would have closed the account right now, but instead I just won't play on their garbage site anymore.


FTP can go screw themselves.

I hope more people start to notice this and are able to reverse the transactions.

FTP can't get our money back. They could, quite easily, provide the details of PMI so we could pursue them in criminal/civil court.

Hory Sheet. PMI answered their phone. Update shortly.

They asked my name.
Verified my last 4 account numbers (gave them to me, asked if those were correct).
Said they had notes as of Thursday.
Said that all three charges of $600 are being returned.
Said that all three would be back by Wednesday or to call them and/or my bank.
They wouldn't give any other information.
Calling my stupid bank now...
Don't believe them, of course.

Call PMI and keep trying....

Still on phone w/ my bank making sure that the blocks I put in place won't prevent them from RETURNING my money.

Like i said before PMI will reverse the charges when they get caught. They prey on the people who dont catch on to their scam to make their money. If it was just a mistake/glitch like they told the other poster then they admit they are aware of what is happening...since they are aware shouldnt they be reversing the charges on EVERYONE affected and not just those who call to complain?

They are Scammers!!!! Even though you got your money back you should still be pissed that they tried to steal from you and if you dont report it to the authorities then youre enabling them to ripoff others.

Well to start off has anyone outside of the US been hit?

Isn't this a case of FTP can't get reputable payment processors in the US to handle them (presumably because of UIGEA).

+ 1

I've been calling them on and off now for 3 months. This is the first time they picked up the phone.

...now to just make sure my bank LETS them.

Just got off phone with bank. The block that I have will not prevent them from putting the money back. We'll see.

I pretty much wrote off the first $400 (total) they took, blocked them, and chalked it up to the gambler's lifestyle. The $200 this month was the last straw.

So, what now? Do i just leave my account open with funds that are meant for Full Tilt and potentially allow something like this to happen again? Or do I close my account? What has everyone else been doing?

You should call PMI and get some general answers from them. Where are they located? Questions about their affilliation with ftp, questions about what time period they acted as a 3rd party processor for ftp, that kind of stuff. Might even be worth it to pass yourself as a journalist threatening to write a story.

All the information about PMI and their association with ftp that can be gathered can only help matters.

They will never, ever answer any of those questions. Saying you're a journalist means insta-disconnect.

Probably important to remember they know they are breaking US federal laws when brainstorming these ideas.

I think the answer for you has to do with how your bank handles fraud, how it credits/blocks ACH transactions, and what the price/headache ratio for you changing banking accounts is.

If you're like me, with multiple properties (and multiple mortgages, this isn't a brag), multiple insurers, and piles of other legitimate recurring bills, the price/headache ratio is pretty high in favor of headache. So much so that I was willing to write-off the $400 before I blocked them the first time.

If it's easy for you to move accounts, fix one or two payroll deposits and a student loan or something, then change banks.

If it's a pain in the ass to change accounts, then it depends on fraud-friendly for you that your bank is, and if you're willing to assume that won't happen again.

...but remember, any time you give a check to anyone, you've compromised your account. They now have your account and routing number. It's amazing this **** doesn't happen every day.

Priority one was getting my $600.
I apologize for not pressing further trying to ask questions, but she didn't seem particular receptive to anything other than telling me that my reversal of funds was processing.

The only hassle would be my anxiety in worrying about collection agencies and such. I only use my account for Full Tilt and other online purchasing. Nothing really important is ever handled through my bank, so not much headache changing information. Just I dont want to get screwed in the long run, but than again I feel like their is more a chance I get screwed over now because of this PMI bs.....any other advice?

How were they able to withdraw more money from your account if you had already blocked them? Fwiw, I did a deposit at the end of Feb. and when I saw this thread pop up, I went ahead and paid my bank's $8 fee and put a block in place just to be safe. The block is good for 12 months.

Does your bank only do a 30 day block or did they alter their processor name a bit to get around your block?

The March withdraw from my account was under the name "PMI SALES," not "PMI 8888758035" like the previous two.

My bank offers me three options:

1. Stop payment of ONE ACH debit for this Party/Company, and asks for Name, Date, Exact Dollar Amount, and my account number.
2. Block all ACH debits for ONE Party/Company, and it asks for the Name, Company ID (10-digit number), Exact Dollar Amount, and my account number.
3. Block all ACH debits from ALL Parties/Companies, and asks for my account number.

Previously the bank did option 2 for me, but it's possible that they did so as a verbal order only, which only lasts 14 days per their paperwork. I can't be certain if they blocked by company ID or not, as they won't provide PMI's company ID to me.

I faxed them an order for option #2 this weekend.

When speaking to them today, and after a long hold while they made sure, they informed me that my block was one-way, and that PMI, in its various forms, could refund my money if they wanted to.

I'm not holding my breath, but I'll see what happens this week.

If this account exists for online purchasing and poker only -- then call your bank, tell them you're the victim of fraud, and get a new account. They'll move your funds today and mail you a new bank card. Your problem is solved, at least until FTP shares your information with another shady processor.

The fact that PMI acted shady or overcharged or stole doesnt really bother me.

Shady financial institutions gonna be shady. Haters gonna hate.

The problem is Full Tilt Poker's response, which has been NADA.

They are making hundreds of millions per year in in profits.

They should be doing BUTT NAKED BACKFLIPS to get this sorted out ASAP, posting in this thread with great apologies, and crediting players accounts with lost funds - OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET.

Their response on this issue so far makes them look TERRIBLE.

And they wonder why they are the butt end of jokes about customer service. It seems like the gap in service quality between Stars and Full Tilt grows everyday. This is a an awful business practice and seriously makes me think the people who run FTP dont really know what they are doing.

what is the merchant's exact name? I want to make sure I am not deducted as well.

Objection your honor! Asked and answered, in the first post, in red.

PMI SALE (this month)
PMI 8888758035 (previous months)

At a minimum, bare minimum, they should be providing us with solid contact information for PMI to aid us in getting our funds back and crediting accounts with at least some sort of apology funds for PMI's misdeeds.

A ftp rep really needs to get in here asap and try to sort this mess out

They can chuck this under the rug all they want at the end of the day it's not just a coincedence that a ton of ftp players are having the same problem

This needs to stay near the top until FT responds to this thing. It would be helpful if it were stickied imo.