yup, thats why I said with the way ftp handles things it really doesn't matter if he did or didn't use a bot, if they think he did it's done.

now if they ban rounderclub I may come back to FTP.

I've played a few thousand hands with Tule and TNN. I don't think either are bots and seem like generally nice people. I never noticed any collusion between them. I can't vouch for them besides that.

Never seen any reason to believe that tulegit21, TNN4731, or Stylistic were botting or colluding. Not familiar with the other 2 screen names.

Hard to see how 5 people could get banned-with-cashout with no one getting banned-with-confiscation. The styles and playing patterns of the above players are so different, the banning must be due to association; they surely not all suspected of the same thing.

My pet theory is there is a 6th account associated with 1 or more of the 5. It did something really bad and got banned-with-confiscation; whoever controls that account is laying low.

hmm, I've actually thought about this as well and found a flaw to it. If there was a 6th account, I know for sure I am directly associated with it. That would mean that I would be ban for this kind connection:

6th Account (fraud) with direct association with Tulegit and I am associated to Tulegit. I think the association between me and 6th account would be too far to ban me. That would mean there should be other players that are associated with me that should be banned.

say Tulegit>ME>another player, and yes I've had other players that have logged onto their accounts at my apartment. FTP thinks Tulegit did something bad, and anyone he's associated with is banned. I just don't see a 6th account in this.

does that make sense? lol after typing that I think I'm a bit confused

dunno what you did but if I were you id just be really happy they're letting you withdraw. probably a good time to switch sites even if they do unban you i think.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...6/index21.html

proves my case why stars is way better in a lot of catagories..good thing u had the option of withdrawing ur money and it wasnt confiscated like other ppl's money in other threads!!!

Good. Serves you right you sc*mbag. Learn how to play poker properly.

Not confused, Style. It makes sense. I figured it that way too. But I was trying to think of an alternative to having 1 of the 5 lying about being able to cash out. I guess whether this 6th account is possible depends on the strength of each of the connections between different accounts and how FTP interprets the web of connections and whatever wrongdoing they believe occurred.

The simplest explanation is that tulegit21 (apparently first to be investigated) was suspected of botting, but not proven. So they ban him. Then they think that the associations between tulegit and the other accounts are so unusually strong that they should ban them as well, even though they allowed tulegit to cash out. But it's not clear from your posts what connections there are between different accounts. It seems more likely that you are the nexus for the account associations, because you say everyone has at least once logged on using your computer. But that would just mean that they stumbled onto you while investigating tulegit, came up with some gripe against you, and then everyone was brought down. You could be clearer about the other associations; maybe all 5 of you were regularly transferring money to each other or whatever.

You can see from the 25k confiscation thread that it looks like FTP might also be using playing patterns to pick out suspicious players (who play together too often). That's a big bag of worms, because people using buddy lists will look suspicious. And people using similar game selection techniques will show up at the same tables together often. Since you guys talk to each other about poker, you might be using similar game selection techniques, although this should mostly just apply to tulegit and TNN playing together.

Listen to this advice. FTP are not to be trusted.

While my WR is higher at FTP but you have to factor into that WR:

.****ty CS,
.the risk of some bizare confiscation of your roll,
.the risk of getting banned for no reason,
.**** software upgrade,
.any other number of -EV things that FTP may at a whim decide to do.

Stars is by FAR the safer bet.


Free advice.

Withdraw half your roll from FTP now. limit your exposure to their insanity

Hmm now that I think about, I don't have any association with tewreal, tulegit's protege. I've never sent him any money nor has he logged onto his acct on my pc/ip addy. The rest has at one point logged onto their aacct from my house or has receive small amounts of transfers from me. My bro tnn4731 has received more transfers from me only because he used to live with me and always went broke. I've always staked him many times b4 too.

I've also thought about this too, but Tulegit would be way more stressed if he was unable to cash out. All of us would. I can't imagine him lying about not being able to cash out. He's going about his life normally and will be playing on stars or another site.

It really looks like there won't be any closure for my group nor for this thread and I already accepted the fact of not being able to play on there. I just feel a bit heart-broken only because FT was the first site that really got me into poker. I've had some good tournament scores from them at the very beginning of my career and also will miss playing with some of the regs that I've been playing with for so long.

"Layne Flack Finishes Second in Pot Limit

Congratulations to Full Tilt's Layne Flack, who took second place in the $1,500 Pot Limit tournament.
...
Congratulations to Tilters Stylistic, who won more than $7,300 thanks to Allen Cunningham and Mike Matusow, and Cracker69, who took home $2,000 thanks to the efforts of Layne Flack, Jennifer Harman, and Andy Bloch. "

This was when they had the great full red promotion and after taking 1st place in a tournament I was happily suprised by the extra amount of money put into my account when the FT crew cashed in the WSOP. I mean, how can I not love FT when they kick started my BR before attacking the cash games many years ago. I was a huge defender of FT ever since. And emails replied to me saying "you are no longer welcome on our site" without hearing my side of the story is just so damn rude.

Check my join date and post count...does that mean anything I say has no value?

I don't know these guys since I rarely play on FT, but mass unexplained bannings do nothing to make me want to play there more than I do.

It'd be nice if FTP Doug would do something more than just post his lame
PR updates once a month.

Brann

I just wonder if the cheater and his family/friends has explained to everybody at the table that they are family/friends and must play together? If they havent. I wonderwhy. I wonder why.

I also see that many say that they know that this family/friends never have cheated. How can they know that? Somehow they must know he person and be close to him 24 hours all the time. That sounds really strange.

yep... they def lost my business

i really have no objections with what FTP did. They found something they didn't like, took the safe approach and closed the accounts and let them cash out. Their risk / reward was loose a few K in rake, but eliminate some sort of threat.

They have an option of who can play at their site. They didn't take anyone's money and they don't have to state why they closed the accounts. It's a business.

don't keep too much money online at once and you're fine.

to OP, that sucks, assuming everything you're telling is true I'm sorry to hear that but at least you go to cash out.

Of course they can do whatever they want. Especially if they make it clear in their T&C.

But there are second-order effects when other players keep seeing these threads, where stuff is dragged out from years ago and you might get banned for no reason at all if you are associated with somebody who goofs up, and decide it's not worth the hassle/risk of downtime from dealing with it, or even losing a chunk of your BR.

reading all these threads lately about account closures and the seemingly lack of evidence from FT has me worried as i've transferred to my brother on a number of occassions as he has to me and he'splayed on my computer whilst house sitting.

this sort of stuff is making honest players seriously consider still playing at FT and i for one will be playing alot less at FTP.

Sorry to hear Stylistic. I know the feeling. But it's just best to accept the decision and move on.


Full_tilting

Read what I said again, because you misunderstood it. A bunch of ppl registered in 2008 w simliar dates and made simliar posts in defence. You wouldn't be included in my comment based on your "2004 join date" not based on the number of posts you have.

Stylistic, you've stated that 3 of the others have logged in from your computer. Have you ever logged in using anyone else's computer?

hmm interesting thought. I think i can safely say that I have not logged onto any of their computers with my account. I'm trying to think if I have on my brother's laptop. I may have but it might've been just one time when we're on a trip in LV or something. But for sure I have not logged on using any of the other four's computer. Nor have I used any of their wireless networks with the same ip/address.

so are you on stars now?

My apologies.

Brann