Just to add, to clarify my original post, I have no problem with him posting his EV to imply Everleaf is rigged. I do however have a problem turning this help thread into a rigged thread. Take that **** to the rigged thread unless you have at least a shred of evidence.

that is false. on which street did you get allin when you got 2 outered?

no, Everleaf does not show mucked cards, but they do show both hands when you get allin (and both hands are in HH--in fact, i'm looking at a HH right now where i got allin on flop and villain lost and i can still see his hand), so allin EV is correctly calculated by HEM.

i was referring to allin EV. not EV.

my graph (ran hot last day or 2 so i'm only ~1600 below allin EV, 16 BI below allin EV when i graph by BBs.. at the worst point i was 22 BI below)


buddy's graph (and i thought i was running bad.. he said its 36 BI below):


fwiw ^ he doesnt think its rigged at all. right now i agree, but a couple days ago i was very skeptical. i think i posted right after i ran about $700 below EV in an hour, which has happened many times before on other sites but not at such small stakes over a short period of time, and i was mad.


The title of the thread is "Everleaf Questionmark" bro. They should make you a sheriff on these boards!

lol

Maybe i dont deserve to win, but i certainly expect to.

Please post which casinos you've seen someone drop 22 buyins in a night.

Sinner, I didnt mean to rag on you but why exactly should we care if you are running bad unless you running bad means the site is rigged? Since obviously that isnt the case you should be able to see why every rigtard posting graphs and hand histories of bad beats in a thread where people have a direct connection to site reps to ask and receive help with real issues is detrimental to the thread and to those people that have real problems. If something actually happened that gave a hint of something suspicious I could understand, but lets be real, there is most likely people on 20 BI AI EV downswings at every single poker site in the world as we speak. Thats all I was trying to say. Sorry for your tough month, we all know it sucks to run bad.

The PT3 people are kind of tools, free software has been pulling out the correct information from the hand history for years

However, the 7-stud history is -completely- useless.

You might check out the Heidelberg poker room in Ann Arbor, MI, or the Northville Downs poker room in Northville, MI. I've literally seen players drop $3k at the $300 buy-in 1/2 at the former, and $2500 at the $100 buy-in at the latter.

I was all in on the turn. PT3 did not calculate the all in EV correctly, so I opened a support ticket with PT3. The quote in my post is from their support.

It may be false that Everleaf sometimes omits mucked cards, but PT3 thinks it is true. If it is false, I hope an Everleaf rep will work with PT3 to clear up any misunderstanding to that PT3 can put out a release with All in EV for Everleaf

if i were running this bad on Pokerstars i wouldnt question the integrity of the game because i know they are trustworthy. Everleaf is probably safe, but it was hard for me not to question the integrity a couple times. also, the runbad happened over <2 weeks.

i'm not surprised

i'm not surprised

Its weird cuz you can see the opponents cards when you click "hand history" via the minted poker client, but they do not transport over to my HEM.

They seem to be the best-reviewed network still accepting US players. I am looking for 1/2 NL SH or HU cash games. I've tried to go through the Everleaf thread for some suggestions, but there seems to be no consensus as to which skin is the best or even contradictory experiences, maybe because there are so many skins? Please offer some recommendations or warnings to stay away. Thanks in advance

I play at Minted Poker and like it. They offer some promo's the other skins do not have(2p2 1k Freeroll, 4,444 hands in specific days win a ticket to the Sunday 3.5K guarantee, etc...). Minted Poker also offers RB on Tournaments and Cash Games. Some skins do not give RB on Tournament Fee's payed. Even though you mainly play Cash Games, you may still want to consider this.

They also have a site rep and sponsored thread on 2p2. The rep is quick to help with any issues and not only takes our suggestions, but regular gets them implemented when possible.

Read through the Minted Poker thread below and see if you think it's what you might be looking for.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...4/index77.html

There are also a few other skins that have reps that post on 2p2 and are reputable. Definitely do like you are and do your research on the skins and affiliates before signing up.

This belongs in the Everleaf thread.

All of the skins use the Everleaf cashier and the rakeback is pretty standard too so just sign with the skin you feel has the best perks on top of this. This info is available on the front page.

As for them being "well reviewed", I agree but it's easy to have good support when you only have a few hundred players. If ELG grew to the size of merge I'd bet that they would have the same problems.

If you do sign up don't expect to be multitabling whatever stakes and game conditions you are used to. Especially in the US evening you will often find only a couple tables if you are looking for a specific stake or table size.

Please be informed that we will be performing maintenance and upgrade work on our gaming system this Thursday, July 7th 2011, between 09:00am and 11:30am GMT+1. The updates will require a downtime of approximately 90minutes during the indicated hours.

As part of the work we will be introducing “BadBeatGuard tables” and “Capped tables

Bad Beat Guard tables:
Bad Beat Guard tables protect the player in “All In” situations with a high probability (depending on the table setting, e.g. 70% would refer to a situation where the odds of winning a hand are equal or higher than 70%) of winning the hand by refunding the player’s pot contribution.


Capped tables:
Tables that limit the amount of betting upon reaching a table cap. Once you sit down at a table, hands are played exactly the same as in regular No-Limit and Pot-Limit games until the cap is reached. Once the betting cap is reached, all players left in the hand will be considered all-in with the ability to match the bet that reached the cap. For example, in a $60 Cap game, a player with $400 bankroll may only wager up to $60 of his stack on a single hand, including pre- and post-flop play.


Best Regards,

TJ

Oh no!! Terrible news. And I thought the update was for better. So now we include lottery table and no risk tables for the fishes...

Is the Bad Beat Tables for the entire Network? Ugghhh......

This is also good advice and why I recommend you really do your homework. Make sure that you check out as much as you can on each skin you are considering and also check out the different promo's that affiliates are offering.

The point about coming in and multitabling 1 specific stake is very good advice. I would not plan on this as it is probably not likely but do your homework and it may be for you. You may need to play on multiple Networks to get the amount of tables you like at a specific stake/format.

I only play 2-3 tables at a time, 4 tops. Is Minted the most popular skin? Also, I quickly gleaned from the other thread that Minted is offering 500% deposit bonus, is that legit? One last thing, what are the peak hours for cash games on this network?

The deposit bonus is correct, though it may not be the best option for everyone. They offer different bonus options but they release a bit differently so make sure you pick the one that will be best for you.

MintedPoker is probably the most popular skin. I play at Minted Poker and I would recommend it but I don't think you should pick based on which is most popular. You do seem to be doing your homework though.

Peak Hours should change a little after tomorrow. They are merging all of the Everleaf Networks so I can't really give you the peak hours at this time. The new networks are mainly Italian so.....

TilttheTilt,

This is a network wide update.

Best Regards,

TJ

Thanks TJ. I guess we have to take the bad with the good

Does anyone happen to know what type of traffic these Bad Beat Tables generate? Anyone think it will split the traffic at all?

The bad beat tables are a terrible idea. Even on the few networks that have them they are unpopular with both grinders and recreational players. With such a small player pool (even after the merger) I don't see why you guys would split players in any way.

Can you explain the bad beat tables? Say it is a "70%" table and you are a 70% favorite, do you get 70% of the pot and your opponent gets 30% of it?

If that is correct ^^ then basically it is just a protection against variance and should have no real impact right?