I have been playing at pokerstars for these past few months...I made a good amount of $. Gave them around $7,000 in rake.

Now, I owe them $400 in debt (don't wanna get into details) and I refuse to pay it off as I believe I shouldn't owe this debt....Thus I won't be able to play at pokerstars.

I downloaded/registered for full tilt poker a while ago. I did this without rakeback. I've emailed them many times since then and they have not anwsered my emails.

I have a MAC computer...This limits my options drastically.




SO WHAT SITE SHOULD I PLAY AT?

Pokerstars: Pay off $400 that I undeservedly owe and play at pokerstars.

Full Tilt: Play without rakeback. Also, I have read about many issues in which cashouts weren't attended to for various reasons (this is very important to me)

Bugsys Club/Absolute Poker/WHAT OTHER POKER SITES ARE MAC ACCESSIBLE?


Thanks for your thoughts/help

This should prove interesting..."undeserving" debt to Stars BUT made $$$$$$$....I am on edge waiting for the FULL never will be told story...

I made almost $30,000...

I played in a $200 hu match w/ a guy. I asked for a chop. He accepted my chop and manually sent me $ 10 hands later, when I was up chips. I refused to send back his $ and I ended up beating him...1 MONTH LATER: I'm in debt to pokerstars $424.


I invested literally all of my winnings so it's not liquid. I have around 2k in liquid funds so paying off $400 isn't a smart move (as of now)

yeah, that makes total sense. $200 HU leads to a $10 xfer which then results in $424 debt.

go play on cake

prove to us you the debt is unjust. or pay it.

From the sites you listed it sounds like you are from the US. You mentioned all the decent/trafficked sites that are Mac compatible.

My suggestion is

A. Pay off the $400 you owe and continue at Stars.

If you're not going to pay off the $400 then use the money to buy parallels and windows and play at any site you want.

Did you try to chop a HUSNG? Kinda defeats the purpose imo. And then even when you make this ridiculous decision you dont sit out while discussing the deal?

pay your debts, you dirtbag

this

If you play that much, playing without rakeback at FTP is silly, so if it's between those two, I'd pay the debt and play at Stars. I'd pay the debt anyway if I were you.

Tell us the whole story if you want more help. We aren't really looking to help someone who steals/scams/whatever and based on what you've told us, we have to assume you stole/scammed/whatevered.

I ended up playing a regular. I don't want to play regulars. Regulars shouldn't want to play me. I'm a good player. Statistically I'm a good player.

But anyways, I didn't post this to argue about the debt, I posted this so I could get some help from you guys on which site I should go to and your opinions of those sites etc.


Please stop asking questions about the debt as that has nothing to do with where I go on from here. If you have opinions on the sites or opinions on full tilt w/ out rake back, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

Thank You

Nobody should give this guy any more advice until he tells us about the debt.

Why should we help a thief/scammer/whateverer?

If you didn't steal/scam/whatever, tell us what happened.

Simple.

Oops I asked more questions about the debt. And he said please!

Ok guys...The debt is due to a headsup game. If you'd like to understand more about it, heres the emails that transpired between me and pokerstars recently. Judge on your own if you want 2. For the record though, I did nothing malicious so I don't know what all the hate is for.














Hello Max,

Thank you for your email.

You have admitted in this email that with the evidence I have supplied
you
with, that you did agree to a 50/50 split in Hand #9. Now, how can we
be
sure that your opponent also agreed to the deal? After you had agreed
to
split, in Hand #10 your opponent states:

04:40:19 fansword said, "prefered to play but.."
04:40:28 fansword said, "i send money"

Then at 4:42:40 AM a transfer of $212 was made to your account. His
agreement of the deal is a combination of the chat above, and the
transfer
of the money.

The deal was agreed to and finished at this point. You agreed to the
deal
at 04:40:03 ET and the deal was completed at 4:42:40 AM - which I must
say
is faster than a PokerStars Host could have hosted the deal.

One advantage of online poker is that we have a full record of cards
and
chat, and can review a matter at any stage. This incident should prove
to
you the high level of security that we provide our players.

You agreed to a deal, and we enforced it to the terms you agreed to.

Please let us know if you have any further queries - we're here to help

24/7.


Regards,

Tim
PokerStars Support Supervisor


----- Original Message -----
From: soxfan57@yahoo.com
Sent: 2008/08/07 22:33:14
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: Re: PokerStars - Chop enforced

>Tim, I agreed to a chop at this point. HOWEVER, HE
>DID NOT. HE MERELY ASKED ME. SO FOR THE NEXT 5-10
>MINUTES I HAD NO IDEA THAT A CHOP WAS IN PLACE. I WAS
>RISKING MY BUYIN IF WE GOT IN A BIG HAND. He sent the
>$ WITHOUT ME KNOWING. How is that fair?
>
>I appreciate your help, and I'm glad a "3rd party" is
>taking care of this situation.
>
>But honestly, how is that fair to me that a guy
>manually chops this...That's not right. I requested
>to wait for pokerstars to come in and chop it and he
>was having none of it. I didn't want nor did i agree
>for him to send me $. Now, I could understand you
>sending him back the $212 he sent me as a chop...He
>sent that because he thought I agreed to a chop (AT
>THAT POINT IN WHICH I DIDN'T). However, making it a
>chop for the entire match is simply unjust.
>
>Thank You, appreciate your help please get back ASAP
>
>
>--- PokerStars Support <support@pokerstars.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Max,
>>
>> Thank you for your email.
>>
>> The 9th hand history for this tournament is included
>> here for your records:
>>
>> PokerStars Game #18832773373: Tournament #95791002,
>> $212+$10 Hold'em No
>> Limit - Match Round I, Level I (5/10) - 2008/07/15 -
>> 04:39:55 (ET)
>> Table '95791002 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
>> Seat 1: $kill Game (2065 in chips)
>> Seat 2: fansword (1935 in chips)
>> 04:39:55 $kill Game: posts small blind 5
>> 04:39:55 fansword: posts big blind 10
>> 04:39:55 *** HOLE CARDS ***
>> Dealt to $kill Game [8d 9s]
>> 04:39:58 fansword said, "so?"
>> 04:39:59 $kill Game: raises 30 to 40
>> 04:40:01 fansword said, "split?"
>> 04:40:02 $kill Game said, "u wanna chop?"
>> 04:40:03 $kill Game said, "yes"
>> 04:40:05 fansword: folds
>> 04:40:05 Moving Bets to Pot
>> 04:40:05 Uncalled bet (30) returned to $kill Game
>> 04:40:08 $kill Game collected 20 from pot
>> 04:40:08 $kill Game: doesn't show hand
>> *** SUMMARY ***
>> Total pot 20 | Rake 0
>> Seat 1: $kill Game (button) (small blind) collected
>> (20)
>> Seat 2: fansword (big blind) folded before Flop
>>
>> Including the previous chat where you offered to
>> split, if you want an
>> exact time of when the deal was agreed to it was at
>> 04:40:03 ET on
>> 2008/07/15.
>>
>> In regards to this being a win/win situation for
>> your opponent, I believe
>> you are mistaken. If your opponent had have won this
>> event they would have
>> received $424. As they had already transferred you
>> $212 to split the prize
>> money, they would have received $212 and you would
>> also have received
>> $212. So if they win the tournament, both parties
>> receive $212 which is
>> the agreed to 50/50 split.
>>
>> As your opponent lost, you were awarded with the
>> $424. Combined with the
>> $212 that you had already been transferred for the
>> deal, you had made $636
>> and your opponent is -$212. By transferring $424
>> from your account to your
>> opponent's account, both parties now have a balance
>> of $212 - which is the
>> agreed upon 50/50 split.
>>
>> It is very clear that both of you agreed to a 50/50
>> split. It should be
>> very clear to you that by your opponent agreeing to
>> the deal and
>> transferring you $212 that he was clearly not trying
>> to take advantage of
>> us or you and was merely agreeing to a deal which
>> you proposed.
>>
>> We have reviewed this matter as an independent third
>> party and can not
>> be 'taken advantage' of by your opponent. We don't
>> enforce these unless we
>> are certain of the agreement, and in this case the
>> deal is enforced.
>>
>> If you have any further questions, please don't
>> hesitate to contact me.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tim
>> PokerStars Support Supervisor
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: soxfan57@yahoo.com
>> Sent: 2008/08/07 22:12:17
>> To: support@pokerstars.com
>> Subject: Re: PokerStars - Chop enforced
>>
>> >Tim, I appreciate your frank manner. However, I am
>> >not satisfied. I did not agree to this deal. If
>> you
>> >could provide me with a direct time in which I did
>> >agree to this deal, I would like to see it.
>> Because
>> >there was no point in which I officially agreed to
>> a
>> >deal. Not only did pokerstars not handle this
>> >situation but I did not authorite a chop between
>> just
>> >us two.
>> >
>> >I appreciate your help but I refuse to pay off this
>> >debt because I was not in the wrong here. I have
>> yet
>> >to be convinced because the evidence you have
>> provided
>> >me with is PROOF of me not agreeing to a deal. Not
>> >only did I not agree to a deal, but I wound up
>> having
>> >to risk my $$$$$ that I put up in order to win the
>> >match. So what if my opponent won the match?
>> NOTHING
>> >WOULD HAVE HAPPENED OUT OF THIS. I win this match
>> and
>> >I have to give my $ back. This was a win/win
>> >situation for him and I feel he's taking advantage
>> of
>> >you guys for such.
>> >
>> >PLEASE provide me w/ a direct point in which I
>> >verbally agreed to a deal with him. I'd REALLY
>> >APPRECIATE THAT because it didn't happen.
>> >
>> >Thank You, please respond ASAP
>> >
>> >
>> >--- PokerStars Support <support@pokerstars.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello Max,
>> >>
>> >> Thank you for your email. I have concluded my
>> >> investigation into this
>> >> matter.
>> >>
>> >> You spoke about splitting the money since the
>> first
>> >> hand, and a 50/50 deal
>> >> was agreed to during the 9th hand.
>> >>
>> >> On the 9th hand when the chop was agreed to you
>> had
>> >> 2,065 chips versus
>> >> your opponent's 1,935 chips. Of the 200 big
>> blinds
>> >> you started with, you
>> >> now have 6.5 big blinds more than you started
>> with.
>> >> That is no where near
>> >> a 'solid lead'.
>> >>
>> >> The chat shows that you both agreed to the chop
>> so
>> >> it doesn't matter how
>> >> it was done. In this case, the chop was done
>> without
>> >> a PokerStars Host
>> >> making the transfer but rather the other player
>> (who
>> >> placed his complete
>> >> trust in you) making the transfer themselves.
>> >>
>> >> It is clear that you wanted to make a deal, and a
>> >> 50/50 deal at that. The
>> >> deal will remain enforced.
>> >>
>> >> As a gesture of good will from the PokerStars
>> >> Support Team, as you have
>> >> often stated that you wanted a chop based on
>> chips,
>> >> I will credit the
>> >> difference to your account.
>> >>
>> >> With 2,065 chips versus your opponent's 1,935
>> chips,
>> >> you had 51.625% of
>> >> the chips, and so a chip chop would have resulted
>> in
>> >> you receiving $218.89
>> >> instead of the agreed upon $212. You will now
>> find
>> >> the remaining $6.89 for
>> >> a chip chop has been returned to your PokerStars
>> >> account.
>> >>
>> >> You are a valued PokerStars member, and we
>> >> appreciate you playing at our
>> >> tables. I would advise that in the future that
>> you
>> >> don't agree to a deal
>> >> nor suggest a chop to other players unless you
>> have
>> >> full intentions to
>> >> uphold the agreement. I do not like having to
>> >> enforce these gentlemen's

Ok, I'd like to revise my previous statement.

Change:

Nobody should give this guy any more advice until he tells us about the debt.

to

No one should give this guy any advice until he pays his debt.

wow big shock Stars is 100% correct and OP is irrational. Pay your friggin debts and stop asking 2+2 to help you until you do.

What a slime ball move that's outright theft....

in the words of teddy kgb, Pay dat mane his money

i think you and absolute would be a good match

It looks like you made a contract, breached it, and Stars adjudicated.

Wikipedia on Contracts.

This is an offer:
This is acceptance:
Congratulations, you have a contract!

He made the offer, you accepted. That's a done deal. You think he needs to do more, you are wrong. That's a mistake on your part.

You have earned it.

Funny thing is the OP is also now looking for someone to stake him.

Wow he sent you the $212 and you still go on to win and keep the whole thing? How do you not at least send back the $212?

Offer + Acceptance = I like the way Jro34 put it

Oh, and even if you were right, you still owed poor old fansword the money he shipped you... real nice of you to transfer it back.

Lol. I gotta stop posting while I play... by the time I get around to clicking "Post Quick Reply", my points have been made...

send the man (or ps, not sure who you owe it to anymore) his money, how is that even debatable?