How about a new poll...

Who goes to malta?

[x]sonneti

Of course they didn't. This 'advance' was only ever theoretical digits added to his account with the click of a button. Let's see some bank records showing that this $245,000 ever had any basis in reality?

The problem is the connection that everyone seems to be making, with no proof that: not sending wire = intent to freeroll OP.

Where did this conclusion come from besides internet forum frenzy?

OP put forth this suggestion without any evidence in order to rally the troops. Why should anyone trust compulsive gambler OP's theory any more or less than the shady unresponsive poker site's? I'm not saying they didn't have that intent, but nobody can show that they did.

Regardless, OP has admitted he owes the money and his only defense is that he just doesn't want to pay because he feels like he was lied to in an email. Game, set, match for the site.

I disagree.

From my previous dealings with Eurolinx, I have sent every wire that I promised them. They have sent all EXCEPT 1.

I would not be against putting funds in an escrow. Except, I would not feel comfortable with putting more then $51,000 (the amount I owe, net of bonuses).

If CM rules that I owe them, and I pay them $100,000 and they now have to pay me back my $49,000 of bonuses. Ha, I just don't see that happening.

If CM or Eurolinx want to use an escrow, I'll comply.

I think he's admitted he OWED the money rather than owes it. Let's just say he was the victim of an attempted scam by Eurolinx. Now, would you pay nigerian scammers money you'd previously agreed you'd pay, even after discovering the swindle? Of course not. So why is a scamming casino given Game, Set and Match but not a scamming Nigerian? How about actually getting to the bottom of it rather than making the same stupid snap judgements from Thread 1 page 1 all over again?

edit: copy of the notes saved and sent to bigrounder via pm. I think it only confuses people to have them included at this point since it only gets us halfway thru the original thread and focuses on the wrong half of that thread.

The issue that makes this situation look like they were freerolling me is NOT the act of not sending the wire. It's the act of covering up the fact that the wire had never been sent and replying hostily to requests for some shred of proof that they wire was in process or some intent to complete the wire.

The reply to my first request for some verification that they indeed were sending the wire, but were fortune enough to cancel it was:

Email from Jo Remme:

"Let me restate our position on this.

We are expecting a wire from you in the amount of USD 99,820,- To cover the losses you incurred in our casino."

Which was followed up by the very next email:

"Our records show that we have an outstanding amount of almost USD 100,000 which we are expecting immediately."

Huh, and I've been expecting my $145k immediately (for 2 weeks!)

And the best reply yet from Jo Remme, came after my seeming simple enough request for some documentation on the $145,000 wire:

"We are not in a negotiation here. You have lost in our casino, and we will be paid."

PoorLawyer- the flip side to your post is it should be not only relatively simple- but important to eurolinx to allay the fears/concerns of the many posters in the thread (players and potential players at their site) that have a hard time with how they chose to approach this issue.

Eurolinx could cement the zoo's opinion in their favor by providing any such evidence themselves- but aren't willing to at this point (not that they care- but they probably should). In fact - OP has said he'll flat out pay if they show any good will that way.

This isn't a legal matter - its a matter of opinion and public perception in here and eurolinx is late to the game and playing a man down at this point.
That's not OP's problem.

Yet you keep on typing here. There's no use posting here as you have no new information to convey. Write up your case for Casinomeister instead.

And why would there be a bonus on money they advanced him? I've heard of deposit bonuses, but that makes no sense to me.

Good point. Will do.

Good question. I was offered a 20% non-restricted deposit bonus on wire deposits. A playthru requirement was never discussed, but I assume if I wasn't giving enough playthru, they would have implemented one.

It does seem odd to offer a bonus on advanced funds, but in the past when they've advance me funds, they would also immediately add the 20% bonus to my balance.

For the last few advances, they have changed this policy, and credit the bonus after I send in the wire. I believe this to be reasonable.

But, due to the events listed in this thread, I don't feel comfortable wiring them $100,000 getting my bonus, and then having them wire back the $49,000.

According to the original thread he was credited 245K into his account (on Friday) which would have to be covered via a wire back to eurolinx. (effectively a deposit)
On Monday they cancelled the original wire to him for his cashout.

I think they are two separate issues even though the 145 looks like it shows up both spots.

As such he would have reason to expect the same bonuses he was getting in similar previous situations on advances that he had to wire in to cover.

That's how I interpret that.

edit: note that if Eurolinx was in fact delaying telling him that his wire was cancelled- giving him that "advance" as a total amount he had to wire in and not associating part of it with a return of the amount he was being wired costs them the bonus amount on his original 145K. They would have a hard time arguing differently based on their responses/emails to him.

I'm not talking about my snap judgment.

This is going to an unbiased arbitrator (or at least OP has asked it to). An arbitrator simply cannot rule in OP's favor based solely on a couple emails saying wire is on the way and his theory that they never intended to pay him.

I completely understand your perspective. why should we believe the op? there is no hard and fast evidence to believe him or not, but from my perspective it is much more likely that he is telling the truth than not. things we do know for a fact:

* op was at some point up $145k
* at this point he requested a wire w/d in full
* some period of time passed. we dont know 100% for sure how long this was, but the op said it was >=2 weeks and i tend to believe this as i have not been given a reason not to at this point in time
* after X amount of time, op and site have a discussion saying the money will reach his bank w/in a short amount of time
* during this period of time, op is offered an advance to play w/ (he didnt ask for it)
* op accepts large sum of money with expectation to receive his 150k in said amount of time
* the advance was in the amount of $245K, while his account was only valued at 150K
* op loses a ferrari at bj
* site instantly cancels wire that was sent 2 weeks ago, and is mid transfer scheduled to arrive in a matter of days.

there may be discrepancies that we are not aware of, but i find it highly unlikely, because eurolinx failed to point them out or even state they exist. we also know that eurolinx is willing to discuss such account details in public, evidenced by multiple instances of such behavior located and posted by op.


ps- this isnt a personal attack on you PoorLawyer, i simply find this discussion interesting...

he can request extra documentation, can't he?

Exactly. The OP has already stated that if Eurolinx shows that they did in fact put a good faith effort to send the wire transfer that he would have no problem sending them the money. The issue here, and the reason why I think most people have changed sides, is that the current theory that Eurolinx was either a. freerolling on him, or b. stalling for malicious reasons, seems to be the most likely, and Eurolinx has not provided any evidence to the contrary. In civil disputes, you just need the preponderance of the evidence, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Has repeatedly to no avail yet.

I deleted the cliffsnotes I did for this thread primarily because I really feel the "story" of that other thread only starts halfways in when it's obvious the story is real, eurolinx is slow to respond/trying to figure out what to say, and many posters who made a quicker judgment early in the thread (me for example) got to the point where we no longer believed OP should just send 100K to eurolinx- that there was more to the story than that.

As it turns out- the 100K number simply wasn't a good number to start from even though the first half of that other thread focused on that.

OP, did you initially request for a loan from EL or did they offer it out of the blue?

OP, I think you made a MAJOR mistake agreeing to arbritration just like not waiting for the wire.

I would never play on Eurolinx now regardless of how your case goes.

You are leaving out two key, apparently undisputed facts: (1) wire transfers apparently take, typically, about 3 days; (2) this period passed at least twice over without OP getting his money.

There is much more to OP's case than you are crediting.

My concern for him -- and why I think this is a bad idea -- is that it is (presumably) him, individually, against the resources of that company. Maybe money is not an issue, but he's by himself against any number of people. You can have the fairest arbitrator in the world, but any lawyer will tell you that the firm vs. the pro se party is no contest.

Also, who knows what "evidence" they are fabricating now, to make their case, to be reviewed by someone who probably is not an expert in banking.

That's a good question, and could be a bit of a grey area. I would need to get the chat log to give a 100% accurate account, but it went something like this:

I was on the chat support sometime on Friday inquiring as to the status of my wire.

I mentioned that I would like to play again, but would feel comfortable playing again, only after my wire has arrived.

The rep told me not to worry and the wire was in route and "haven't we always paid you before?", which they had. (That should be the "warning sign" phase)

I asked if one of my wires (it was 2 wires totalling $145k), for $33,000 was cancellable if i wanted to play a bit. The rep adviced me that the wires were already processed by their bank and it was impossible to cancel them.

After this, he said that he can "advance" me $20,000 if I wanted to play today.

I came back later that day and accepted the $20,000, got stuck, and then I would go to chat and requested an additional $225,000 (in various increments). All were approved and credited into my account within 5 minutes.

Why?

Why not?

Is it just me, or is this a massive change in OP's story?

This is not good.

I ask good questions don't I. LOL.

How so?