Right...this conclusion has been jumped to somewhat prematurely, IMO. It is quite possible, and perhaps even likely, but it seems that many have now taken this to be a fact proven beyond reasonable doubt, which I don't believe it is.

that, and now it seems like he kept losing 20K or so and kept asking for more of a marker. It wasn't like they saw they owed him x amount and offered to give him x+ 100K in the hopes he'd lose the whole thing.

This new development looks pretty bad for the OP. It certainly gives the impression he was being misleading. While eurolinx isn't neccesarily free from criticism it makes the OP loook much worse. I would change my vote back to paying if he really did request the money advances.

I think Casinomeister arbitration is good for the OP, and possibly for Eurolinx as well. While I have no direct experience with CM they seem to be respected within the industry by both players and casinos.

I understand OP is willing to pay the money back if it appears Eurolinx advanced him credit in good faith and weren't freerolling him, scamming him, or unable to pay him back if he had won. I think CM can determine if this is the case.

I'd like to nominate N 80 50 52 or whatever his name is, Nate the pokerdb guy, go to Eurolinx as he did to AP but I doubt he would do that for free. If not some other smart guy would be OK.

also, once again you left out the most crucial option on the poll

[ ] OP and Eurolinx should submit to a binding decision by a neutral arbitrator and do whatever he tells you.

I already have, as well as offering to put my funds into escrow.

I believe Jo Remme offered to do so in this one post, although i don't know if he would be willing to put up $145k into escrow, or if he can even access such an amount.

I have already contacted the Casinomeister and requested that he arbitrate the case.

I'd like Jo Remme to re-confirm that he is willing to accept whatever decision is rendered by the Casinomeister and if the ruling is for him to pay me $145k he will do so within 2 business days of the ruling, as I have stated I will do, if the ruling is adverse to me (assuming we don't already have the funds in an escrow account).

I trust Casinomeister. Post a follow-up whatever happens.

Why do I suddenly have the urge to open an online casino??

But srsly, bank wires dont take that long to process. I requested one yesterday from Scottrade(stocks), and the money was wired in my bank account within 4 hours of my faxed request.
Anything over a week leaves no doubt you were being scammed.
I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out which one of the two of you is the shadiest.

Why in the world is UB not on that list if AP is? Seems a little weak to me.

Nevermind of course, assuming perfect strategy was a little bit optimistic

Ugh, this thread goes back and forth. I really dont know what to believe now. It seems odd that they say its impossible to cancel, then suddenly when they no longer owe you the money they manage to cancel. But then, if they really had not initiated the wire in an attempt to freeroll you, wouldnt they have been only too happy to help when you requested the cancellation?

If I was a shady business and had told a customer I had wired them their money but in reality I had not sent a dime, then the customer came to me and said please cancel the wire, I would have said "certainly, it will be cancelled within the hour."

Not saying that I now believe EL or anything. Im still very worried about them given other information in the threads and the way they have handled this. Have cashed out until this situation becomes clearer. Even if EL turn out to have not been shady in this case, the chance they have cash flow problems with the addition of many worried cash outs due to this thread might be enough to send them over the edge for all we know. Might be a self fulfilling prophecy I guess but what can you do. Im not taking the chance.

Yeah, my view on Eurolinx has turned to neutral. Neither good nor bad.

I'd like to clarify the issue of the phrase that I wrote in my opening post of the first thread: "On Friday even, Jo Remme, offers to "advance" me and credit my poker account $245,000", because it seems that when I earlier gave the detail account of how the offer went, it seemed to contradict this statement.

First of all, my argument has always been with only one issue: Eurolinx promised to wire my money, they never did, they lied about the fact that it was sent, then after I lose a large amount, they were able to cancel the wire. Besides that, I had no other complains with Eurolinx. They advanced me funds, albeit, strange, I thought of it as good customer service.

It seems that for many posters the issue of "...Jo Remme, offers to 'advance' me and credit my poker account $245,000." is the major issue, so here is as detailed account of the two chats from Friday morning and Friday evening and my explaination of them to clear up misconceptions.

As I wrote previously, on Friday, April 4th morning I come on chat and requested the status of two wires: wire #1: $111,829 requested Monday, March 24th, and wire #2: $33,191 requested, Wed, March 26th. Both wires show as approved on Monday, March 31st. I assumed, from previous wires that it goes to the bank on that Tuesday, April 1st and will arrive on Thursday, April 3rd, as promised. I ask if the chat rep if he is sure that they were processed as I wanted to play a bit. He confirmed that they have already been sent and cannot be cancelled. He adviced me that if I wanted to play, he could advance me $20,000.

On Friday evening, I returned to chat, and asked if I get the $20,000 advance now and needed more later, would that be a problem. The rep (different one then from the morning), adviced me that it would not be a problem, and if the $20,000 wasn't enough, just come back to chat and ask for more (any rep would be able to help me) and they'd give it to me. No maximum amount was discussed, but I assumed that they would advance me at least $65,000 (the high amount previously advanced) and possibly more.

Based on the fact that the funds were advanced to me by several different reps, and although the original offer to advance funds was for $20,000, it was with the assumption that more would be advanced, as needed. Although it was the reps on chat that were crediting my account, I assume there were doing it with authorization from Jo. Since a maximum advance limit was never discussed, but confirmed it would be more then the first $20,000 and ended up being $245,000 I wrote in my opening post is: "...Jo Remme, offers to 'advance' me and credit my poker account $245,000."

I hope this clarifies this issue. I don't feel this issue has bearing on my dispute, but for those readers that feel differently, above are the facts, use them as you like.

Besides splitting 8's always, and if I'm not on tilt, I do play "perfect strategy".

My theory on the issue of "not being able to cancel the wire"--It had been confirmed as sent to me on two previous occassions, and how would it look if they were able to cancel it after that? It would make Jo look like a liar. Although this is exactly what ended up happening.

Edit: In retrospect, I highly doubt that Jo would have advanced me $245k if he knew that $145k was on it's way to me, as he was telling me.

I think OP might end up having to pay Eurolinx.

For those that previously wrote that it may not be possible for EL to product a document to "prove" that a wire was request and then cancelled, here is an email i received from Jo Remme, on Monday, April 7th:

"We were fortunately able to send a stop order on both wires. This means they will be credited back to us in a day or so. Per my earlier email, we need you to wire us the outstanding balance."

The key phrase here is "...they will be credited back to us in a day or so", which means there should be some line item that shows it being debited.

If this is true, all EL would need to do is send me this statement that shows the two wires being debited. Case close, they win, I pay.

Why have they refused to provide me such a simple document to get paid such a large amount, and possibly repair out relationship?

If CM so decides, then that is what will happened, although, I would definetely like to hear how CM reachs that decision.

Maybe because no one has discovered the SuperUser accounts at UB yet.

Regardless of CM's decision, I still would like to know whether any wires were sent.

they werent, and cm will have a field day with this hopefully.

Rounder- it's not so much it hurts your point of contention as it does make the totality of circumstances different than what many readers thought it was.

This is your own post- in which you use that large advance (which is now admittedly many smaller loans as you lost) as an argument for inducing you to lose money.

post #56...

"The only reason that I can think of that they would give me a $245,000 advance, is because they were freerolling on me. They owed me $145,000, which they didn't plan to pay anyway, and by offering me a large advance, they hoped that I would lose it, which I did.
I do not know any of the principals of the site, I have only been playing there for approxiametly six months, and I have never provided them with any prove of my identity or age. They don't know my SSN, my financial status or my credit rating, yet they gave me a $245,000 advance? Why? The only reason would be so I'd lose the $145,000 they owed me, and if I won, that was fine with them, because they'd require me to wire in the funds that they advanced me (which is what happened previously when they advance me money, I won, and they still required me to wire in the advance of $65,000), and then refuse to pay me my winnings. Either way, it was a lose-lose for me."


Your story went from being way ahead in public perception to "oh man its another of those oops i forgot to add this part at the right time" threads.

It makes no difference at all in many of us still being interested in why the wire never went thru and was somehow cancelled, but it definitely puts the entire story in a different light than I feel we were led to believe in that other thread.

They accomodated you when you asked to stay- even if they originally didn't do a good job showing you the door to leave the first few times you asked.

I realize that's your point of dispute- but this isn't the hot girl they threw in front of you to get you to stay. It's the escorts once you asked.


edit: fwiw I still see no reason to send 100K to start the process of resolving this issue if you cannot rely on getting the 49K wired back in a timely manner. The other stuff still is up in the air for me as it has been all along.

OP, when you lost the final dollar of the $245k, did you try asking them for more and they refused? Or did you feel you'd had enough, and switch off your computer?

I know from my own experience of compulsive gambling that a madness takes over when you're losing heavily, and you'll do everything you can to get more money to keep playing.

So, did they tell you enough was enough, or did you decide it for yourself?

After reading my own post, I can agree with you fully. I can see where the advance of $245k would be an issue for readers. Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees, as the saying goes. As you can see my first 15 or 20 posts were a bit disorganized. I was trying to rely the story as I saw it, but the only issue that I considered of any relevance was the unreceived wire transfer. Period. I will consider that readers would judge EL on degrees of culpability. For me, they were guilty as charge, and none of the other facts enhance nor mitagate this fact for me.

After reading over 500 posts on this issue, my thinking has changed, but when it did, I am now stuck with this issue of the "advances" which I needed to clarify.

At no point was my intent to deceive nor cull any support or favoritism from the readers.

My attempt was to tell my story as accurately as I saw it, and if this is one of those "oops I forgot to add..." so be it, and hopefully that is the only issue that comes under scrutiny.

I still believe that whether they offered the advances or I requested them, although it's an unusually situation, but was done within their rights as a casino to retain a gambler, gambling; but I can see the difference between it being offered or requested, in many readers minds.

The only issue was and I have stated all along is the fact that not only was my wire cashout not processed, and I was consistently lied to about it. The reason why is irrelevant. Whether it's cash flow problems, legitimate business reasons or just a sneaky way to hold on to the funds a few days longer in the hopes that I would lose it, if they had told me that, I may not have been happy about the delay, but I would be typing this post.

They even had an "out", according to their T&C; they process a maximum cashout of $50,000 per week. They could have told me that was all they would send me. Nothing I could argue then, but no, they said they I'd get my wire "within the normal 2-7 business day time frame".