You can have your concerns but I very much doubt that you will get any better. Obviously we would all like to pay even less rake, but it is what it is, Stars will not make any more improvements now and might take them back if they listen to the noise that a minority of players make (like that did last time). It is either this offer that has been negotiated by our elected representatives or nothing at all. Which one do you prefer?

Stars is not a democratic state but a commercial company that can charge whatever they want and they have shown a lot of goodwill by agreeing to these changes. And if you don't like the deal that Stars is offering you have the freedom to play somewhere else. But in any case please you stfu before you make it worse for all of us

Old: fixed fee of $x per flop. The 5% is meaningless.
New: 3-handed and 5-handed caps increased; most pots still hit the cap.

+1
The reps did not have a strong bargaining position and were at the mercy of PS. The changes are reasonable and have lowered the rake for almost everybody.

where does it say this? sngs still get 5.5 right?

The changes for 50/100NL cap are exactly the same as they were under the proposed changes by stars on January 1st, surely something more needs to be done to compensate these raketraps?

Who are the "all of us", exactly? What entitles you to express your concerns over others concerns so they must stfu?

The overall gross rake change/cut itself is marginal (are you aware of what a 2% gross rake cut amounts to in the end to a individual player on average?) so your concerns are either disproportionated or entirely selfserving.

So why dont you stfu?

I know the main this was NLHE and PLO games, but did anything change for split pot games, e.g. Stud8 or PLO8?

it's pretty ridiculous how 6max gets ****ed again... it's beyond mindblowing that multipliers still don't match between FR and 6max

BUT capping now 5handed pots at 2.80 at midstakes compared to 2$??? seriously? did nobody of the reps saw this?i bet after all this **** stars making exactly the same money if not even moar... you have to think about this. rake got increase for 5 handed play by 40%. a ****load of SH games run 5 handed bc there is always somebody sitting out...

as usual, wp stars... and most of the players don't even realize how bad this all is (even i thought "good changes" in teh beginning until i was like "wtf, are u kidding me?!")

I thought the reps were undertaking a thankless task, but I think they've done a good job here. Looks like Stars needs to further tweak some things later in the year (so 2+2 definitely has to keep badgering them with rake figures in certain games at certain stakes), but I'm pleasantly surprised by some of the "concessions".
Well done guys!

Was there any change to the increments in which the rake is paid?

Continuing expressing concerns is a thing, going over reps is another one.

There is plenty of reasons to continue expressing concerns. I will talk about LHE, the game I know very well and where I am a regular (with over 1 million hands played on stars and SN+ for the third year).


The changes almost match the 29th December one and final result is very similar to the old rake (although malinformed people will be misleaded and will think there is a huge cut - there is NOT).

At the "same time" (since 1st january) winning styles got a cut of ~10 to ~20% on rewards (which on LHE games represent - in general - a much bigger part of the winnings compared to NL). FL players are much more reward dependant than NL players. So the relative importance/weight of the cuts (on rewards) are not the same either.


For a player with a winning style at LH mid-low stakes 6max, we are talking about a game tougher to beat by about 0.1 to 0.3BB/100. Those are the stakes where many FL players are playing (just check Pokerscout).

That what it sums up in the end!

For SNE cash game players, the vast majority of our tables will be 5 or 6 handed. So we get:

-"Average 14% less VPP"

-"Higher Rake"

-No 6x multiplier for 6max

The only concession thrown at us is that we can keep SNE multiplier when we fail to earn SNE this year.

Monster fail!

I haven't done anything personally itt other than ask questions that haven't been answered. Seriously lack of representatives itt is not helpful. So I am not in danger of ruining anything & I highly doubt these changes will be reversed this time.

Yes but this is because of WC not the rake changes. Why aren't you lobbying to get rid of that?

They already stated there's no going back on WC period.

How exactly do you get higher rake? And be glad that you only loose 14% of VPP-s. At FR the number is probably closer to 30%

They change the cap to 5player from 2 to 2.8

I'm quite positive that the rake at MSNL 6-max got decreased, just by a lot less than FR NLHE. PLO benefits even less than MSNL 6-max.

It's just a bad distribution of the 2%.

Because I am pretty sure that Stars will not reverse it (as I already stated several times). If it is hard to "lobbying" about cutting gross rake and to get somewhere with it, it is even harder to get somewhere if you spend your energies in trying to reverse the rake method change.

You are correct on your assessment, of course (the WC is the thing making the game tougher to beat and the very very marginal cut - almost not noticeable at all - on gross rake does little to reduce the problem).

But they decreased the 6 player cap to $2,8 from $3 and the 3-4 player cap to $1 from $1,50. They also lowered the rake to 4,5%. This does not seem as an increase to me.

i play disproportionate number of 5 and 6 handed. the 3/4 handed rake decrease is almost meaningless to me. from my quick math my rake increases at ssnl/msnl.

tables dont run 3 or 4 handed. the game will get filled to 6 handed or break imho. and people often sitout so 5 handed.

I agree with you. They however did lower the rake for everybody. Did they lower it as much as people would like? Probably not but considering that we have nothing to bargain with this is a pretty good end result.

Are you serious? You are telling me that you never play 4 handed but play a ton 5 handed. If that is true then I am sorry for you but you have got to realize that you are a very small minority.

Pokerstars was hell bent on changing to a 5 player cap and on getting rid of the increment. It is was in the Dec 29th offer that everyone hated, but here it is again. The reps were powerless. PS greed has reached new heights.

Anyone thanking PS for this "rake reduction" is out of their minds. I think the most important thing for players to keep in mind is...

The past was "high rake/high rewards", now that the high rewards are gone, the rake needed to go way DOWN. The rake didn't go way down and PS is screwing the players.

Cashing out and not going for SNE this year

gg