^^ this is what i was getting at. The s/n was just to get attention. I really don't care if my s/n or thread gets taken down. I will not be posting here again anyway. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that Bovada is fully aware that bots play on the site, but don't do anything about it, because they don't care where the rake comes from. But it makes you think, if they allow bots (winning bots, losing bots, break even bots, pope bots, botswana whatever) even though their terms strictly "forbid" it, what other shady crap will they allow? Who gives a crap if most bots lose money??? They act like they advocate safe and fair play and adhere to the terms that they set out, but clearly they don't. When I emailed Bovada about this first they gave me the cut n paste answers from their Terms page. When I replied they played dumb saying "we do no use bots to play against our player" no crap, that isn't what i was getting at. I guess I am pathetic for creating an account on here, but I know that 2+2 is a highly read forum and thought this would be a good place to get the word out. I will never put another dime on that (or any other) online site again and maybe someone who was curious about playing there will think twice.

I spoke with RTR about this and they told me that they have no connection with this person or business. They created an affiliate account with RTR years ago. They do not get paid for it and, since it was brought to RTR's attention a few years back, RTR has requested several times for them to remove the links. They do not answer and of course RTR has no control over the site.

If so, bring em on!

Bring on more Russians!

I really don't know how my post could give that impression, but hopefully my reply has cleared that up for you.

I have no problem with you raising your concerns - it's the bolded that I think is over the top, especially given that you are continuing to repeat it despite some of the replies you've received.

Please tell me if I've misunderstood something - bot maker tells you Bodog ignores bots, Bodog denies that, and you've decided to take the bot maker's word as 100% gospel. This in spite of the fact that you believe these bots make most of their money from rakeback, and as you've been told, Bodog doesn't offer rakeback.

Bodog might do a terrible job with bots, or they might do a great job. IDK either way, but I'd suggest doing some more reading on the subject before jumping to conclusions. If the idea of bots playing on poker sites is relatively new to you, you definitely should do some reading - we've had threads about bots for years. The only network I can recall having a fairly universally bad reputation for failing to clean up bots is iPoker; not sure if that's changed in the years since threads about them were more prevalent.

Cliffs: Bots are out there - educate yourself before making assumptions. A botting forum may not be the most impartial source of information.

With all due respect bobo, have you done your research? I spent a few hours reading through the threads on that site, and I came to the conclusion that there is something to this. There are a lot of different members posting on the site and logic tells me that these are real people using real software that violates policies on Bovada. Im sure you are a smart guy and if you did enough research, you would probably come to the same conclusion. Also I never said bovada denies this. I said they gave me a cut and paste of their policies and in the second email they played dumb and said "bovada doesn't use bots against our players". They never replied to my last email.

Only 9 years of reading this site on an almost daily basis - I'd say I've got at least a little knowledge behind my posts. But I won't claim to be an expert in the area, as I'm certainly not. Not even close.

The thing is, I'm not the one who has concerns or is making claims about a site. You are, and I was suggesting that before coming to conclusions, you might want to round out your sources a little. Whether you choose to do so or not is up to you, of course.

To your final note, I must apologize for misremembering what you had posted earlier about their response. Their response was admittedly weak, although unfortunately that happens sometimes with front line CS reps - they don't always get things right.

Anyway, you've got your thread here for feedback, and that's great. The fact that it's been here on one of the busiest subforums of the biggest English-speaking poker forum in the world for over 24 hours and has had no responses thus far fully backing up the bot developer's claim is interesting. But it hasn't been that long yet; perhaps others will chime in soon telling a similar story.

I like that "I read the bot forum for a couple hours" is being implied as "research".

wiper, I googled the subject, found a guy selling bots and read hundreds of posts on said site. Other sites I looked at I couldn't get access to any forums because I didn't purchase a product. You can read hundreds of peoples personal theories about the subject online but that doesn't lend much credibility. Most members of the forum I believe purchased the software. There is a lot of talk of how to modify the bot, improve the bot, script editing, best site to use bot, bot performance at different stakes, best bot profiles etc. There are a few news articles on the subject but beyond that, I am not really sure where you want me to find this wealth of knowledge on the subject. Bottom line is what I read (if true) would violate Bovada's policies. I also sent screenshots and links to bovada from the forum which they brushed off, which leads me to believe that egor is telling the truth about bovada allowing this conduct.

What exactly did you expect them to do, call Obama? I'm sure Bovada is much more aware of bot networks than you are. They probably expense dozens of accounts to snoop on such forums, blend in, download software, etc. Just because they are aware of something doesnt meant they have the resources to stop it. Obviously they must be doing something to combat the bots, otherwise there wouldnt be an entire forum detailing how to circumvent detection.

They do what they can but it's probably low priority for them because they came to the same conclusion, the bots are losing, there arent that many of them, and they dont have a viable solution to every version available at the moment.

I dont know the whole history and connection of bodog and bovada, but i've been playing on bodog (now bovada) since like 2003 or 2004. Before/after UIGEA was passed, during the netteller fiasco, etc. After UIGEA passed, i did stop playing there only because they changed their software and pokerstars and FTP took over. But from my experience over the past 10+ years with them, they've always seemed respectable, honest, and fair. OP, it is good that you reported the issue to them but i see no reason to paint a bad picture about bovada or to warn anyone about playing on the site.

Who knows whats going on, on this poker site but I will say I dont trust Bovada, but that's just my personal opinion. Seen too much sketchy stuff on here.

always nice when someone says they see "sketchy" stuff but provides no detail. Leads me to believe it's the same old poker's rigged crap. If so, there's a thread dedicated to you in this sub-forum.

Some of you kids are dumb on this forum, sorry. It's my personal opinion that its sketchy and I don't need to provide proof to make others believe me. No it's not rigged, I just do not like the play on the network itself

An amazing 4 posts so far. Trashes Bovada, trashes Lock (OK, that one is understandable), praises Intertops, then says he's taking money to WPN and Revolution.

again, claims sketchy, but provides zero detail. Guess i'm "dumb" for pointing that out. must have some solid basis to your claim.

when his aces dont hold up there, i guess he's off to ???

i dont know why you guys take it personal, just discuss whats best for thegame and the known facts or hard evidence, gl.

Nah man its fair play at bovada. I'm just overall unlucky on the site I guess. And forgive me for making an account on 2+2 , everyones gotta start new when they sign up.... I've been following this forum for a long time now but haven't made an account until today

And I apologize for saying "dumb kids". Perceptions are huge and I should have been more specific with my claims.

Thats a lot of "probablys". I am sure Bovada PROBABLY has your best interest in mind too. Do you still think FTP had your best interest in mind? PROBABLY not. Its all about money, and when a site puts profits ahead of its customers its time to get out. Anyway thats the way I look at it. I don't want to put my money on a site that doesn't protect its honest player. Thats just me though. And I think you are pretty naive if you think that gazillionaire Bovada can't keep up with simple bot software. I don't see anything in this paragraph that says its ok as long as your bots lose money...

6.4. "Bots" Prohibited. All actions on the Website must be executed by players via the supplied user interface. We will take any measures necessary to ensure that all robot software or programs designed to simulate real player play will be detected and prevented from accessing the Website. Any accounts associated with such activity will be subject to review and possible termination. If, in our reasonable discretion, we determine that an Account is employing such software, the Account will be disabled and all Account balances (including both deposits and any winnings) shall be forfeited.

I have a friend who bought it. Took 40hrs of messing with it just to beat nl 2cents..

The bots are terrible and the programmer knows nothing about poker. Like literally he's unsure in his programming if a flush beats a straight.

real winning bots are not for sale anywhere

Yeah, I guess to someone who likes to use absolutes, two "probably"s is a lot. It's a word some of us like to use when we're not 100% positive about something. You might want to try using it in the future, rather than making absolute declarations about things you don't really know for certain.

Actually, it's you that's naive if you think that any online poker site can always be caught up to bot software. At any given time, I expect there are bots playing undetected on pretty much every network. What's important is how prevalent they are, and what the networks are doing about it.

No idea why you felt the need to quote that entire clause when he said nothing of the sort - he simply suggested that bot software that is losing might be low priority, which seems like common sense to me.

Sorry I am not as forum savvy as you Bobo, my mere 9 posts can't hold a candle to your 40k, then again, I run two businesses and don't have time to troll poker forums all day, maybe if I did, I could figure out how to post like a true hero like you. Thats the problem with these forums, theres always a handful of arrogant d-bags that feel the need to try to belittle people or scan posts just to try to jump on nuances instead of just sharing ideas. I am sure you will have this taken down, but I've said all i needed to say, was just trying to prove a point that these things exist and are allowed to exist. Of course, you are brilliant and probably know all there is to know so this post really didn't pertain to you, just the naive idiots like myself who thought that certain poker sites were fair and level playing fields. I am not a reporter and do not have the resources or time to delve into the underground world of poker bots, what I did find bothered me and just wanted to share. Thanks to all who had an open mind in this post.

I wasn't aware that I had belittled you in any way, although I have criticized a number of your points. Sorry if that offended you, although it seems like you don't have such an issue with calling me a few different names.

I actually made sure to mention that I'm not an expert on the level of botting on sites - not even remotely close.

Again, there's nothing wrong with you sharing; I encourage you to do so. But when you use shoddy reasoning, be prepared for that to get some negative reactions. That's sort of the way posting on forums works - people will disagree and debate sometimes.

I'm prepared to back down when I've posted something that is incorrect, as I already did a couple of posts ago, and apologized for my mistake. I don't know if you're ever willing to do the same, or if you've had an open mind on this subject yourself.

It's a shame that you've chosen to assume all my posts come from a place of arrogance, and then take numerous personal shots at me.

full bots and collude in 500





UTG FOLD AQ WTF? player 4 and 3 has 44 55 xdd

same vpip and pfr and 3bet xdd

and yes, i folded like a ******