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Old 03-21-2008, 11:26 AM   #1151
mellowman307
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

A more likely scenario, Casino rewards pays the Tusk Liquidators a nominal sum,...ie $1 for the casinos, agrees to pick up the debt owed on the casinos including the shortfall in the players accounts.

A similar situation:

"The Disposal

Sportingbet announces that it has sold, on 12 October 2006, its US-facing sports betting and casino business (the "US Operations") to Jazette Enterprises Limited ("JEL") (the "Disposal"). Sportingbet received cash consideration of US$1 for the shares and related assets of the US Operations, and has discharged excess liabilities amounting to approximately US$13.2 million. Had the business been closed, the Board estimated that the cost of severance and closure would have amounted to approximately US$14.0 million – a total saving of circa US$27.2 million." from Poker Room Review
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:49 AM   #1152
mustmuck
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by mellowman307 View Post
A more likely scenario, Casino rewards pays the Tusk Liquidators a nominal sum,...ie $1 for the casinos, agrees to pick up the debt owed on the casinos including the shortfall in the players accounts.
Yeah, I realized that, but if that's the case then surely A) CR are picking up 100% of player debts or B) the liquidator now knows exactly what % of debts are recoverable, and transferred the relevant amount to CR (and they picked up the rest). Or is there another option?
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:46 PM   #1153
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

At this stage the liquidator has had no player make a claim,.... so this may be the best news that the poker players could hope for.

The CR deal completes prior to claims even being filed,... therefore it seems to follow the casino players will not be filing claims against the pool thus the poker players will get a larger portion of the final tally.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:58 PM   #1154
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by RoyalCardClub View Post
I would like to make an update to my above post. I have just checked and the access to RCC reporting has been restored(it stopped working just after Microgaming cut Tusk off) thus allowing access to update the message of the day, which we just did.

Unfortunately this will not have any impact on players money
Thank you for doing this, RCC.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:27 PM   #1155
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

If some buyer show up the liquidation process would be much faster but because of the big amounts involved and the quantity of creditors that its not easy and probably would have some restrictions on withdraws.


I know that this case is diferent but its interesting to know details of similar cases in other networks:

"The Dynamic Gaming Systems Network (DGS) collapsed in 01/08/2008 based in Costa Rica crumbled, allegedly taking licensee and player funds at 19 online poker sites, the best known among these being JUNGLE POKER and Wingows Poker.

Dynamic Gaming Systems (DGS) announced in 02/12/2008 that an agreement for the transfer of their network had been reached with Cintaly Holding Corporation (CHC) and that it was their intention to have the DGS network in full operation within 72 hours of the transaction being completed.

Since then, we received disturbing reports from players who have been attempting to play at JUNGLE POKER and from one player in particular who has been a customer of JP for about a year. This player reports that there is absolutely no evidence of a legitimate new ownership and that CHC appears to be a non-existent company. The entire site remains closed except for ring game play, perhaps 2 or 3 people at support and the cashier, which just reopened Sat, Feb 11th, with the announcement of new withdrawal rules, which say, in effect, that no previous account balances will be honored. The few remaining players are being made promises of things that never take place and the entire situation is a shambles. The players are being told absolutely nothing and accounts have been locked in retaliation for criticizing the individual who claims to be the Director of Operations. The player wrote, “My main reason for writing you is that what is going on at JUNGLE POKER is bad for internet poker and what DGS and the supposed new "owners," particularly [the Director of Operations] are doing to legitimate players is disgraceful at best, and in my opinion, criminal at worst.”

A player writes: “Just a quick update on the situation at JUNGLE POKER. They are running a very limited tournament schedule now, about 8-10 per day, mostly $1 and $2 buy ins, with from 5-20 players. The ring games are still operating, but also with very light traffic, on average 7-15 players, total. Everything else, unfortunately, hasn't changed. Players still can't get clear answers from Support and the Cashier, while open, doesn't seem to be responding to any requests. Their new withdrawal rules are absurd and essentially say you can't withdraw until you make a further deposit and then withdrawals are both costly and very limited. And [they] are still using heavy-handed tactics on players. I know two who have had their accounts locked and many more who are very frustrated.”

And another report: The player had been playing at JUNGLE POKER for years and was previously owed $300 when the Dynamic Gaming Systems network collapsed. That sum reappeared recently in the player’s JUNGLE POKER account, but when another withdrawal request was made, the player was informed there were new rules that state an additional deposit is required in order to request a withdrawal, and that the maximum withdrawal is 10% of the available player balance, with the maximum withdrawal limit being $500 USD per month.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:24 PM   #1156
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Wink Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Stop messing about and tell us what you really think.
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:46 PM   #1157
acethiest
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalucho View Post
They mention Tusk on this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aro-mftfa34
Thank you for the video, glad some poker outlets are covering this (fast forward to 8:50 for tusk info.

Funny though tat once again another guy defending MGS does so literally seconds after running fortune gaming affiliate adds in his video.... BTW I am still receiving junk mail from them to my home address even though I havn't played with them in years (they also phoned my house several years ago to try and market a deposit bonus)....

Jeez actually after watching the video it is just one big commercial... and VERY misleading regarding TUSK being bailed out.

I will give him props though for addressing the dream situation
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Old 03-21-2008, 06:16 PM   #1158
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I like rounders radio. Very irresponsible though claiming that he has been assured that MGS will cover player balances when no official statement has been made (even if MGS were to cover player balances they wouldn't decide until most likely months from now), and (if this is true then he can buy my account for 85% of whats in there). The funny thing is he claims how uneducated people are for boycotting MGS since they are the one's that will save us. In fact if the guy understood the situation he would realize the MGS boycott is because MGS has not provided any information to the players about the security of their money or any steps that MGS would take to ensure our money is safe.

Also he tells us there is no reason to panic because one company didn't operate properly (of course he somehow manages to leave out that this one company has knocked out 27 casinos....). The problem is with this analogy is that there seem to be very few safe guards in place to ensure that funds are kept safe by other companies in the future. It seems fairly irresponsible of MGS if this fact is true (that anyone can get a skin on MGS and ripoff players).

But once again very glad to see this being covered.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-22-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:54 PM   #1159
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by john kane View Post
doesnt liquidation mean the liquidators sell all the assets, total up the money.

work out how much they owe their creditors.

then work out based on these two numbers what % they can give back to each creditor.

i.e. they have assets of say $10m. they have creditors (e.g. players, banks etc) of $30m.

so they give back 33 cents for every $1 owed. i.e if your balance was $10k you get back $3.3k.

i could be completely wrong, this is what ive seen happen to football clubs when they get liquidated.

i wish you all the best. i lost a bit over $1k on pokespoker.

john
It means the liquidate assets then pay off secure creditors then what is left they pay unsecured creditors x cents in the dollar.

From what has been said in this thread poker players funds are unsecured.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:57 PM   #1160
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

If the funds are in trust then they don't fall into the liquidator's 'pot' at all (if he accepts they are held in trust of course) and he can't touch them other than to pay them out to the players.
If they aren't in trust then then the players will just be unsecured trade creditors and get paid out of any monies left after liquidator's fees, banks etc. that have taken security, linked group companies or individuals that may have taken security for funding provided, any other creditors with security, staff, outstanding government fees and taxes etc Quite often there is very (or zero) little left. That is why 'trust' account status for players funds is crucial.

If you are a trade creditor who wants to have a vote in the liquidation process you need to lodge (or prove) your claim. I assume that all players would be treated individually for this as there is non-one with authority to act for us. In theory if you dont lodge you may run the risk of not being paid anything, but I expect that the player balances, names and addresses are all easy for the liquidator to come by and if he knows of a debt he is meant to pay if out anyway. The players who are owed a lot should get a lawyer on site to liase with the liquidator asap IMHO. They also need to be sure that by lodging they don't waive any claim to trust status for their funds. If a claim for trust status for their funds is sustainable but not admitted by the liquidator then their attorney should be making it now before the liquidator starts dipping into players money to pay off apparently higher-ranking creditors.

All along I have said our only outs are a magically solvent liquidation, proving trust status for player funds or an MGS organised bailout.

That is still the position but time is running out for those of you who have enough at stake to be getting proactive here..
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:32 AM   #1161
pkr_brat
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

RCC how are uz still online? whos paying for that? I can log on at battlefield uz are still on the microgaming network what gives?
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:09 PM   #1162
theMightyZep
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

The explanation given by excession is probably one of the best given in this thread. That being said, it is also a very complicated situation that needs to be broken down piece by piece.

I am a practicing attorney and would be happy to speak to anyone to explain the situation. I won't charge for my time. I would, however, state that this offer can only be extended to people with large sums of money deposited (i.e. over 5K). I would love to help everyone but it seems that too many people are involved for me to handle alone.

PM me privately. I wish everyone else the best of luck.
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Old 03-22-2008, 03:33 PM   #1163
nicksson
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Don't worry, G-Unit will save us all
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:04 PM   #1164
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by theMightyZep View Post
The explanation given by excession is probably one of the best given in this thread. That being said, it is also a very complicated situation that needs to be broken down piece by piece.

I am a practicing attorney and would be happy to speak to anyone to explain the situation. I won't charge for my time. I would, however, state that this offer can only be extended to people with large sums of money deposited (i.e. over 5K). I would love to help everyone but it seems that too many people are involved for me to handle alone.

PM me privately. I wish everyone else the best of luck.
So am I, and so is excession. I think it is appropriate to post your thoughts here. Especially if you are an Australian attorney.
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:40 PM   #1165
pokernils
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Id like it with a teaspoon pls:

So what happends to my 6K on RCC??
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:28 PM   #1166
MadGoat
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Are the Skins going to make the claim with the liquidators on behalf of theirs players?
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:29 AM   #1167
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by pokernils View Post
Id like it with a teaspoon pls:

So what happends to my 6K on RCC??

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Old 03-23-2008, 10:57 AM   #1168
HarriSeldon
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I work at a newspaper and considers letting one of my collegue interview me and write an article about this from a players point of view. I've already informed some of my work mates about this poker scandal and they think that this is absolutely a story that needs to be telled. I had an early warning alert that something bad was happening as early as februari 27 and made a withdrawal that day but, as you know, the money never landed in my account.
I've been hesitant since I don't want to appear in this kind of connections. However I told the paper that it's ok on my behalf if I'm anonymous in the article and that's no problem with the editors.
It's a regional newspaper with a cirkulation of approx 54 000. We are cooperating with the swedish news agency TT and if they find the story interesting it can reach millions of readers. In my case it's not so much money ($2,3k) however. What do you guys think of this? As a player I'm gonna be pretty pissed off of course. Since I was a customer at BFP I'm gonna be angry with them and also Microgaming for the way they have handled this affair so far. Shall I warn players to deposit in any Microgaming site you think? What else is needed to be said?
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:34 AM   #1169
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

We have to do something to make Microgaming look bad in light of this story, so that it would honour players balances.

So far as it seems, this bs barely affected the network and it sickens me.
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #1170
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
I work at a newspaper and considers letting one of my collegue interview me and write an article about this from a players point of view...
I would consider mentioning some of the things in the letter written by Wordwhiz.

Quote:
Dear Sir/Madam:

I am writing to you concerning a very troubling situation that has arisen on the Microgaming network. A large number of players have had a significant amount of money (approximately $6,000,000 as best as we can tell) frozen, and possibly stolen. The summary of the events is as follows:
On February 15th, the certifying authority eCOGRA announced that it was pulling its "Safe and Fair" seal from a number of online casinos owned by the Tusk group. Despite this, eCOGRA was still hosting jpg images of the seals they were supposed to have revoked (http://www.ecogra.org/certificates/%...nge_Casino.jpg). Most of the affected casinos were reportedly still displaying the seals too.
On February 27th, Microgaming announced that it was terminating its relationship with Tusk due to Tusk's decision to go into liquidation (http://www.microgaming.com/pressrelease_255.php). Twenty eight (28) different poker sites on the Microgaming network use Tusk as a payment processor. Players at those 28 sites (skins) have been unable to deposit, withdraw, or play with their funds at these sites. The owners and operators of the skins have stated that they were not made aware of Tusk's liquidation, the removal of their sites from the Microgaming network, or the freezing of player funds prior to this date.
As the situation now stands, a number of poker players have a large amount of money stranded, apparently in the hands of a company that is insolvent and going into liquidation. We are unaware whether this money actually exists and will at some point be recoverable, or is gone. This has proven very distressing for all players with funds at these sites, as well as the operators of the various skins.
It appears as though the primary malfeasant in this debacle is Tusk. However, based on how the situation has played out, Microgaming and eCOGRA appear to bear a large degree of responsibility as well. Firstly, Microgaming allowed Tusk to operate the 28 poker rooms and various casinos using its software. Microgaming still advertises on its website that poker on the Microgaming network is "an extremely safe game to play. ...[P]layers in the poker network are automatically protected by Fraud Control Systems and client server encryption." Microgaming had a duty to continuously oversee the financial situation of all rooms on its network to ensure the safety of player funds.
Secondly, Microgaming and eCOGRA's regulatory actions in this instance have been insufficient to protect player interests. When eCOGRA removed its "Safe and Fair" seal from various casinos, it did not clarify that the Tusk group was insolvent and days away from going into total liquidation, nor did it advise users that their funds were in immediate jeopardy and should be withdrawn as quickly as possible. (Even if it had done so, this might not have been sufficient, since Tusk was obviously on the brink of insolvency already and would likely have been unable to honor a run on funds at that time.) Nor did Microgaming issue any sort of alert to its players. This would have been especially useful for those of us with funds on the poker sites, since at the time the relationship between Tusk and the various poker skins was generally unknown at that time. The removal of the eCOGRA seal of approval (even if it had been done completely properly) was inadequate warning to protect player interests.
Finally, Microgaming has been extremely secretive in its handling of this matter. Its three press releases have revealed virtually nothing to the public. It has refused to communicate with the skin owners, who have described themselves as "blindsided" by this turn of events, and have been repeatedly promised information on certain dates only to hear further silence. Microgaming also allegedly sent a letter to two of the skins on February 25th suspending them for rakeback violations (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=149), which was made known to us only through a leak by an anonymous insider. The relationship between this letter, the alleged rakeback violations, and the Tusk insolvency is still unclear.
In summary, Microgaming and eCOGRA have failed miserably to protect player interests. Many players have tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars that they may never see again. This is egregious misconduct, constituting at the very least gross negligence and possibly outright fraud. We request a full investigation into both Microgaming and eCOGRA, as well as whatever regulatory or punitive action gives us the best chance of recovering our frozen monies as fast as possible. Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,

Bunch of angry 2+2'ers.
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:42 PM   #1171
RoelofZ
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Havent read the thread in a while, so whats the situation now?
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:15 AM   #1172
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by RoelofZ View Post
Havent read the thread in a while, so whats the situation now?

You just started the 14th page.










Micro is giving is information late in the week on how to contact the liquidator.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:43 AM   #1173
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

This whole situation is really starting to tilt me, and I've only a couple K on there.

I agree with Black Winter Day, MGS have to be made out to be shady scum publicly in an effort to get them to step in and offer some help.

bigt: what should we say to the liquidator? I mean, I doubt they're going to tell us much. Lodge out claim to what we're owed, and then sit back for what could be a year to see if we get all or any of it back?

It's good to see RU optimistic about things, given their relationship with Battlefield, but I'd like to get something positive released officially at some point soon.

Hari: Get them to print "Do not put a single dollar of your money on any skin operating on the Microgaming network" in big, bold letters somewhere in the article. Noone should be playing on MGS, yet it's still business as usual, lots of tables/tournys running etc.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:32 AM   #1174
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by Wolitzer View Post
yet it's still business as usual, lots of tables/tournys running etc.

Actually, numbers are way down. 10-15% on average.
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Old 03-24-2008, 02:54 AM   #1175
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
Actually, numbers are way down. 10-15% on average.
Yes, but it's still business as usual, despite a few players missing.

There hasn't been a knee jerk reaction i.e everyone hearing about it, saying *** you MGS and taking their money elsewhere.
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