Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-17-2008, 01:18 AM   #1001
mellowman307
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

MGS may be your official record keeper but they have absolutely no knowledge of deposits and withdrawls on the Tusk network.

You might also check the Official Australian liquidation costs,... if done by the Aussie Government they charge a flat fee of 20% of the funds recovered.

One of the most controversial issues right now in the liquidation process is the time it takes and the enormous costs involved with the time.
mellowman307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:28 AM   #1002
acethiest
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,902
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I have spoke to mellow privately and he seems to be very knowledgable regarding both liquidation and online casinos.

There was an interesting remark from a skin manager quite awhile back that said liquidation would go much quicker since they were located in vanatu rather than australia. Wish more information was providing there.
acethiest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:48 AM   #1003
skier_5
Pooh-Bah
 
skier_5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 5,443
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxInTheHenHouse View Post
This situation has no direct impact on my business. You know why? Cuz I do my homework, I didn't list any of the affected sites on my pages. I didn't deposit my money on them either. I do the research before I play or promote any site.

I'm posting to try and bring some reason into the discussion. Did you even read my original post?

This is going to take months to clear up... not days!

Attacking Microgaming or the other sites on the network will not have any positive outcome. This industry is suffering enough already. It's actually a huge benefit to the affected players that Tusk was on Microgaming and not running independently like FT or Stars. At least with Microgaming involved, there's a small chance you'll get paid.

Flame away....
This is exactly my point. This is the vibe i get from this post:

"lol you suckers i did my homework and this doesn't affect me at all. BUT please don't attack microgaming because that certainly wouldn't be good for me."
skier_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 03:28 AM   #1004
timelined
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Selfmades diagram below is correct. Although I think money was held in Vanuatu and then drawn down to Australia to pay for operating costs?

The Vanuatu company was initially setup for taxation purposes and also to house a server(?), and hold player purses. Back in the day I believe Online Gaming was still a little touchy in Australia, and I *think* a gaming company cant take money directly from the player to an account in Australia.

Talbot Holdings / MDA etc.. I believe may have been the company which gave money to newecon to launch and start their casinos - invested interest but nothing to do with the operating. The original guys who started up the company all left, and probably sold their holdings in the company to the 2 new owners.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Made View Post
To summarize, from what I can tell from the Independent Expert's Report and other sources:

Tusk Investments Corporation (Inc. Vanuatu) (Company Number 28453)

owns

Fuze Media Pty Ltd (Inc. Australia)
They did the payment processing, customer service, selling skins, etc.

owns

MyPokerProfit (Inc. Australia)
The players' funds are probably in a bank account in this company's name.
timelined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 04:55 AM   #1005
FoxInTheHenHouse
centurion
 
FoxInTheHenHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London Canada
Posts: 153
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier_5 View Post
This is exactly my point. This is the vibe i get from this post:

"lol you suckers i did my homework and this doesn't affect me at all. BUT please don't attack microgaming because that certainly wouldn't be good for me."
Let's look at my integrity since you are so intent on questioning my intentions...
I'm an active member of both the APCW and GWPA websites where I regularly take a stand against poker sites on behalf of players like you and others who may fall victim to rogues and predators. I constantly fight for revisions to predatory T&C's and I'm very vocal when it comes to outing rogue sites. I'm well known and respected within the affiliate community.

My handle on both those sites is ThePokerkeep... my claims can easily be verified.

And let's talk about boycotts...
When Absolute was caught cheating, there was a cry to boycott. I completely agreed with that call and put my money where my mouth is. I blacklisted them immediately, in fact I was among the first affiliates to do so. I also blacklisted Ultimatebet a short time later (since they're so closely related), all their banners and links were removed from my pages. They're still on my blacklist today - prominently located on my home page. How many other affiliates are still boycotting them?

Did the AP boycott work? AP's player numbers went virtually unchanged after the scandal broke!

And now we have Ultimatebet embroiled in a similar scandal - have their player numbers dropped as a result? How many affiliates are blacklisting them? How many of you are boycotting them?

Honestly, boycott or not, this scandal/travesty is not going to hurt my business. I didn't post here as an affiliate. I'm a player too and my post was made as a player trying to bring the discussion down to a more reasonable level. In the past few years, as a player, I've lost money on three occasions due to sites closing so I do sympathize and relate to what you're all going through.

The point of my original post was and still is...
Boycotts don't work.
Threats are pointless and detrimental.
This is going to take some time to sort out.
Someone may yet step up and purchase some or all the brands involved.
Microgaming has a history of doing right by the players.
Everyone needs to be patient and let the smoke clear.
FoxInTheHenHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 05:06 AM   #1006
timelined
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

The skin owners are glorified affiliates. When a player makes a deposit, or has a player purse, it is held by a TUSK company. A Tusk Company (Pay on ?????? - Cant remember the name) pays players through this company. Money never actually reaches the skin owners, until players + affiliates + mgs + mpp taking their cut are paid their share.

The Pay on ????? company I have encountered before. I withdrew money from one of their casinos and was paid to my Neteller from this company.

My view is that the company does not fold over night like this, skin owners must not have been paid in the previous months allowing Tusk to operate, and one day... everything just imploded.

People keep mention Ecogra... Ecogra was a seperate issue, Newecon / Fuzemedia had recently moved offices. to get an ecogra seal, you need to have good security and follow certain guidelines in how your company operates which TUSK / MPP / CPS / fuzemedia apparently failed.





Quote:
Originally Posted by acethiest View Post
Agree 100% with this point. The skin owners have a lot of explaining and while I think some are innocent and victims of TUSK I feel fairly confident that others are much more in the blame. Problem is, how much money is there available and how do you go abotu going after them?
timelined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 07:03 AM   #1007
Double_Nothing
enthusiast
 
Double_Nothing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 97
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

the dollar has never been this low compared to the Euro....
Double_Nothing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 07:09 AM   #1008
Self Made
veteran
 
Self Made's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxInTheHenHouse View Post
I'm posting to try and bring some reason into the discussion.
Like trying to stop a river with your hand.
Self Made is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 08:48 AM   #1009
lostmonkey
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxInTheHenHouse View Post
Microgaming has a history of doing right by the players.
Microgaming do have a good history of paying the players when a skin has gone bust but this time it is a lot more money.
lostmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 09:30 AM   #1010
mustmuck
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,497
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timelined View Post
My view is that the company does not fold over night like this, skin owners must not have been paid in the previous months allowing Tusk to operate, and one day... everything just imploded.

People keep mention Ecogra... Ecogra was a seperate issue, Newecon / Fuzemedia had recently moved offices. to get an ecogra seal, you need to have good security and follow certain guidelines in how your company operates which TUSK / MPP / CPS / fuzemedia apparently failed.
It's Purchase On Net. I don't see why you have decided that the eCOGRA issue is separate. Having just checked, their eGAP requirement 104.R.2 states that "Players’ balances at any time must be covered by liquid funds.". A company the size of Tusk could operate for a substantial amount of time while only being able to cover a fraction of the players' balances. However, if R9s and Battlefield were closed they'd have to pay out a lot of cash via withdrawals or transfers. This would have exposed the fact that they couldn't cover the balances, so they'd be forced into liquidation.
mustmuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 10:36 AM   #1011
BigThangz
grinder
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: anybody wanna get hi
Posts: 404
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowman307 View Post
Mustbeblufin , I am not trying to srike fear.

I have been involved in numerous involuntary liquidations as a Canadian Banker.

ALL parties with any balance owed to them have to agree that the balance is correct.

It is not up to the liquidator to accept the Tusk balance.

The liquidator will cover his ass, therefore every player will be contacted by the liquidators, and at the going rates in Australia, minimum $75/hour for secretarial and $300+/hour for supervisory work the cost will be enormous.

You've been involved in one liquidation,...I've been involved in hundreds,... I do know of what I speak!

There was a definite lack of 'real world' experience in the posts and thats the only reason I've added any comments,... realism not fear mongering.

dude everyone noes canadians are the biggest ******s on earth and u do everything wrong, i used to do business with alot of canadains and i rember 3 of them taking 2 hrs to count 100k it was commical. have u ever been involved with a liquidation that involved a poker site with players balances? if u have then keep talking if u aint STFU
BigThangz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 11:17 AM   #1012
FoxInTheHenHouse
centurion
 
FoxInTheHenHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London Canada
Posts: 153
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigThangz View Post
dude everyone noes canadians are the biggest ******s on earth and u do everything wrong, i used to do business with alot of canadains and i rember 3 of them taking 2 hrs to count 100k it was commical. have u ever been involved with a liquidation that involved a poker site with players balances? if u have then keep talking if u aint STFU
Thanks for adding this quality content to the discussion DUDE...
FoxInTheHenHouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 11:35 AM   #1013
Mustbeblufin
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 700
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowman307 View Post
MGS may be your official record keeper but they have absolutely no knowledge of deposits and withdrawls on the Tusk network.

You might also check the Official Australian liquidation costs,... if done by the Aussie Government they charge a flat fee of 20% of the funds recovered.

One of the most controversial issues right now in the liquidation process is the time it takes and the enormous costs involved with the time.
Which is what makes your posts so lame. The liquidation is not in Australia and you are 100% incorrect that MGS doesn't see deposits/withdrawals.
Mustbeblufin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 11:40 AM   #1014
stilts
stranger
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

wow just saw this thread, had $600 on one of the sites about 10 days before this happened but luckily got it out

I haven't read the whole thread but what I have read has put me off microgaming. that and im having problems with purple lounge (a microgaming skin not connected to this scandal) in that their check bounced - luckily only a small amount

Could anyone sum up what has been happening with this for me? I havent got time to read 100+ pages!

This situation is crazy - are the owners/directors of the companies concerned facing any legal proceedings

best of luck to all of you that have lost money through this
stilts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 12:01 PM   #1015
TMcStacks
centurion
 
TMcStacks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 156
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigThangz View Post
dude everyone noes canadians are the biggest ******s on earth and u do everything wrong, i used to do business with alot of canadains and i rember 3 of them taking 2 hrs to count 100k it was commical. have u ever been involved with a liquidation that involved a poker site with players balances? if u have then keep talking if u aint STFU

I thought you were going to stop posting?
TMcStacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 12:15 PM   #1016
MLSchaff
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 534
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowman307 View Post
Mustbeblufin , I am not trying to srike fear.

I have been involved in numerous involuntary liquidations as a Canadian Banker.

ALL parties with any balance owed to them have to agree that the balance is correct.

It is not up to the liquidator to accept the Tusk balance.

The liquidator will cover his ass, therefore every player will be contacted by the liquidators, and at the going rates in Australia, minimum $75/hour for secretarial and $300+/hour for supervisory work the cost will be enormous.

You've been involved in one liquidation,...I've been involved in hundreds,... I do know of what I speak!

There was a definite lack of 'real world' experience in the posts and thats the only reason I've added any comments,... realism not fear mongering.
I have been involved in many liquidations (not in Australia, but in the U.S.) from the standpoint of being the primary secured creditor. I have seen liquidations take as little as 1 week, and as long as over a year. Every circumstance is different. If Microgaming really wanted to get this over with quickly for the players, they could work out a deal to buy all the player accounts and take the players' place in the creditor pool. Then the liquidation could go on forever without the players being hung out to dry. There are solutions, and maybe MGS will step up and do this once the liquidator is ratified. I would still like some kind of statement from MGS that their primary interest is making players whole, but I'm guessing their lawyers won't let them say this even if they did want to. I won't be completely surprised if we get 1 more press release from MGS saying that the liquidator is in place and then we never hear another word ever again as it gets swept under the rug.
MLSchaff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 12:27 PM   #1017
1C5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: thats cra-p
Posts: 7,530
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

my rakeback site is now offering eurolinx RB I see.

This is the same RB site that assured us "our money was safe at battlefield"

now they have the guts to send me a private message asking if I want to sign up with them for RB at a prima skin while my money is still on battlefield?

**** off
1C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 12:30 PM   #1018
1C5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: thats cra-p
Posts: 7,530
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

what i sent them:

it would be nice to GET MY MONEY FROM BATTLEFIELD before putting more money into prima. and nice of you to support another Prima site while your customer's money is still not returned, nice business plan you got there.
1C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:13 PM   #1019
sonplz
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 367
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Disclaimer: Doesn't really contribute anything

So I've been curious how much this has affected the Microgamings network so I compared the peak traffic at pokerscout.com between Feb 14th - 29th to March 1st - 16th.

Whilst i dunno how good peak traffic is to gauge the actual traffic during that time, the results are:

Feb 14th - 29th: avg. 1950.0625
Mar 1st - 16th: avg. 1773.6875

Thats a drop of 9.94%. Maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can interpret those numbers and what they mean to the network.
sonplz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:58 PM   #1020
pkr_brat
centurion
 
pkr_brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: (◣_◢)
Posts: 183
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1C5 View Post
my rakeback site is now offering eurolinx RB I see.

This is the same RB site that assured us "our money was safe at battlefield"

now they have the guts to send me a private message asking if I want to sign up with them for RB at a prima skin while my money is still on battlefield?

**** off
Yeah i just seen this this is bad news the people who run RU are mates with Battlefield so it looks like Battlefield wont be coming back if they have lined someone else up. Thing that gets me is I never heard of Battlefield until i joined RU and they had such a good deal that it was hard to pass up. Now that the money is stuck they just stay quite and offer a diffrent site just forgetting about us. Its not on imo.
pkr_brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:04 PM   #1021
pkr_brat
centurion
 
pkr_brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: (◣_◢)
Posts: 183
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Di yous get a reply to the letters yous sent?
pkr_brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:17 PM   #1022
1C5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: thats cra-p
Posts: 7,530
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1C5 View Post
what i sent them:

it would be nice to GET MY MONEY FROM BATTLEFIELD before putting more money into prima. and nice of you to support another Prima site while your customer's money is still not returned, nice business plan you got there.
This was the reply:

"Other players sharing your predicament with Battlefield HAVE requested another room on the Prima network.
We are not talking a handful of players, an overwhelming majority of the former Battlefield players requested another room.

Prima is not the culprit in this, the company that ran BFP and 27 other skins on the Prima network are the ones to blame, not skin owners, not Prima."


So how many 2+2ers that played on Battlefield have requested another room? I find that hard to believe...
1C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:20 PM   #1023
1C5
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: thats cra-p
Posts: 7,530
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

and to anyone who actually put more money on a prima skin with money still tied up at battlefield, all i gotta say is lol.
1C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:22 PM   #1024
pkr_brat
centurion
 
pkr_brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: (◣_◢)
Posts: 183
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1C5 View Post
This was the reply:


So how many 2+2ers that played on Battlefield have requested another room? I find that hard to believe...
The day after they said they have another site lined up we'll just wait and see what happens with Battlefield. Now there here with the new site so i guess Battlefield is gone.
pkr_brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:30 PM   #1025
R.R.
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,168
Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Hey guys, I understand your frustration, and we are equally frustrated. Remember since we allow cashout anytime, we pay you before we get paid, so we will not get paid for February's rake, but we will not deduct that from your rakeupdate accounts.

The reality is, we are providing a service and we got several msgs and emails asking us what Prima room was best to play at now. After some research and emails, we came up with Eurolinx because of the ability for US players to deposit and the EU license.
This was not just a business move, we do care a great deal about our player base at rakeupdate.com and are still daily looking for ways to push this issue forward.


I think the end result with Battlefield Poker will be VERY positive. The problem is, the gears in the legal machine turn slowly.

Regards,

Rake Reduction
R.R. is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive