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Old 03-12-2008, 02:28 PM   #901
flybe1
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by InsideEdge View Post
As much as it sucks guys you just have to wait until the legal guys give the parties involved the clearence to talk.

I am a UK based chartered accountant so have a good feel for how these things work. The finance profession is primarily concerned with covering their own ass and as such need to make sure that they legally have everything in hand before they act. Administrations can take a while. The parties concerned are WITHOUT A DOUBT currently deciding on the best action to take, it's obviously a big deal for the owners of TUSK and Microgaming as well as you guys. This action will fortunately/unfortunatley be governed by the law and what's ultimately best for the businesses involved.

For what it's worth i am very confident you guys will all get your money back, in full (no chance rakeback), through a variety of possible avenues. It will just take time.

99% of this thread is useless rumour spreading. The constant contacting of customer support will get you nowhere. As much as it sucks you need to sit tight and see what happens next.
Hope you are right, but if you are wrong, do you and the UK lawyer who posted earlier think we have any claim against Microgaming?

I have just signed up for another Microgaming skin (to play freerolls i hasten to add) and these are the conditions you agree to:

END USER LICENCE AGREEMENT

1. Licence

1.1. You are licensed to download and use this Microgaming front-end software (the ‘software’) to play Microgaming games at sites that are licensed to use Microgaming software. You may also copy the software for this purpose. This licence is granted subject to all of the terms and conditions in this End User Licence. Please read them carefully.

2. Restrictions

2.1. All rights in the software are reserved, and you may use the software only as licensed to you. Save as is expressly authorised in this licence, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble or otherwise attempt to access the source code of the software, or modify, adapt, or translate the software, or otherwise do anything to or with the software that is not strictly required for normal licensed use. The architecture and code of the software is a valuable trade secret of Microgaming, and you undertake not to disclose any information relating to the architecture or code that you may obtain from downloading or use of the software.

3. PERMISSION FOR COOKIES

3.1. YOU AGREE THAT MICROGAMING CAN FROM TIME TO TIME USE A COOKIE ON YOUR DISK TO SAVE INFORMATION (SUCH AS USER NAME, PASSWORD, OTHER PERSONAL DETAILS, EMAIL ADDRESS) SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RE-ENTER THIS INFORMATION EACH TIME YOU VISIT THE SITE. THIS COOKIE CANNOT BE USED TO RUN PROGRAMS OR DELIVER VIRUSES TO YOUR COMPUTER, AND IS UNIQUELY ASSIGNED TO YOU. IT CAN ONLY BE READ BY A WEB SERVER IN THE DOMAIN THAT ISSUED THE COOKIE TO YOU. THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE COOKIE IS TO ENABLE YOU TO SAVE TIME, AND FACILITATE FUTURE ACCESS TO THE SITE.

4. Transfer

4.1. You have no transferable rights in the software or this licence, and you may not sub-licence or rent out the software or assign or otherwise dispose of this software for value, nor attempt to do so.

5. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

5.1. IN NO EVENT WILL MICROGAMING OR ITS LICENSEES BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, PURE ECONOMIC OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, OR ANY LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS, EVEN IF A MICROGAMING REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS, DAMAGES, CLAIMS OR COSTS OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY THIRD PARTY. MICROGAMING’S AGGREGATE LIABILITY AND THAT OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE, IF ANY. NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT LIMITS MICROGAMING’S LIABILITY TO YOU IN THE EVENT OF DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY ARISING FROM MICROGAMING’S NEGLIGENCE.

6. General

6.1. If any part of this licence is found to be invalid, void, or unenforceable, then the remainder of the licence shall remain in force. Nothing in this agreement shall affect any overriding statutory rights that you may have under the law of any competent jurisdiction.

7. Law

7.1. This licence shall be governed by English Law excluding any English conflict of law rules, and the courts of England shall have exclusive jurisdiction over all disputes arising from the use of the software or arising from this licence.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:18 PM   #902
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by mustmuck View Post
It is very unlikely to matter what you do in the end of the day. If you don't withdraw it then you can see it on your account balance, but that's probably the only difference. The account is already with Tusk, it doesn't move from the skins to Tusk like BigThangz is insinuating.
i wasnt ssayin it gets moved to tusk it goes there from second 1 im sayin id ratehr be able to see it then have it on tusk payout list( for all u no they doctor it up an miss place some) least if u can see it u can take a screen shot an prove how much u have i think it pointles to cash it out obv TUSK isnt making any payouts so wtf would u try to cash it out and like i said MG may just move balances to diff skin so if they did would u want your funds ona new skin or tied up in TUSK cashout? personaly it dont matter everyone is 95% screwd anyways relyin on MG to pay us
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:22 PM   #903
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by flybe1 View Post
do you and the UK lawyer who posted earlier think we have any claim against Microgaming?
Just guessing, as obviously I dont have the details, but I would think it highly unlikely.

If I had large sums of money on the site i would be contacting the administrator at this point. They are effectively running the company now and should be able to keep you up to date with proceedings.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:24 PM   #904
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

IN NO EVENT WILL MICROGAMING OR ITS LICENSEES BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, PURE ECONOMIC OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, OR ANY LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS, EVEN IF A MICROGAMING REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS, DAMAGES, CLAIMS OR COSTS OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY THIRD PARTY. MICROGAMING’S AGGREGATE LIABILITY AND THAT OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID FOR THE SOFTWARE, IF ANY. NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT LIMITS MICROGAMING’S LIABILITY TO YOU IN THE EVENT OF DEATH OR PERSONAL INJURY ARISING FROM MICROGAMING’S NEGLIGENCE.


im no lawyer but Doesnt this just basically say MG will not cover funds if tusk dont got them
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #905
WordWhiz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

flybe1--that EULA is just about the software. In other words, if the program crashes your computer, you don't get to sue them even if it wipes out the only draft of your soon to be best selling novel. It has nothing to do with the skins absconding with your deposit money.
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:45 PM   #906
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by BigThangz View Post
well thats a nice idea SIT TIGHT, E A F D, funny when i go to pay my mortage an tell them just SIT TIGHT tusk has my money and is in liqudation ull get paid as soon as everything gets workd out they seem not to care a rats azz so pay the god dam money allraedy its going on week 3 weve allready sat god dam tight, im siting so god dam tight i couldnt stick a noodle up my butt

I thought you had your money on another safe prima skin?
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:10 PM   #907
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by TMcStacks View Post
I thought you had your money on another safe prima skin?
i do but i have alot of TOKENS for rounders stgs on BF an rv but all my cash was on safe skin i prob wont see my tokens anyhow i just find it ******ed something like this can happen.
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:12 PM   #908
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by BigThangz View Post
i do but i have alot of TOKENS for rounders stgs on BF an rv but all my cash was on safe skin i prob wont see my tokens anyhow i just find it ******ed something like this can happen.
And you plan on paying your mortgage with rounders tokens?
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Old 03-12-2008, 06:30 PM   #909
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

well ya rd5 pays 3k for 1st not hard to win 1 in 3 dam weeks
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:33 PM   #910
fmohasse
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Has anyone found a lawyer in Vanuatu yet??? i was looking for one and it is really hard to trust a lawyer that does not even have a website. and Many of the one that have website then the site is not working!!!! guess it is not just the law that is backdated to 1914!

If anyone have made a contact with a lawyer in vanuatu please post or send me his/her contact info. I just want to get a lawyer to find out the liquidator name and number and verify if the funds are being hold in trust.

And for those of you who were defending or Sympathizing with the Poker skin owner... i have posted twice to send me the legal document between them and MPP so my lawyer can figure out if we have a case against the MPP and can go after them in Australia and i heard nothing.. i also send the owners 2 private message and again it was ignored!!! just thought i should let others know

cheers, (at least try to)
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:42 PM   #911
HarriSeldon
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I've done some homework and have glanced through the swedish bankruptcy law. It's a very extensive law with over 350 paragraphs. I'm guessing that the english banruptcy law is not less extensive and pretty similar. Since mainly english law is practised in Vanuatu I believe english bankruptcy law is applicable in this case.
After reading the bankruptcy law I think I better understand that this unfortunately can take some time. I'll try to wear those uncomfortable Microgaming spectacles in this post and try to look at this affair from a MG perspective.
The following is pretty much all MG has said since 27 february
27 february: Microgaming publish a press realease that says that MG has terminated the licens with Tusk Investment Corporation with immediate effect. Reason: Tusk has told MG that they are about to liquidate the compmany.
29 february: Microgaming express that they understand players frustration with the lack of information about players accounts with Tusk. MG also says that they haven't hear anything from Tusk and therefore is unable to assess the situation.
7 mars: MG announces that a liquidator has been appointed. The appointment is subject to ratification by the regulatory authorities of Vanuatu. MG also says that they "have not been informed how long this ratification process will take, but it will provide additional updates on the situation as and when information becomes available."
Post 7 mars: Silence...

Bankruptcy processes can be really slow and I believe that there is really not much MG can do to enforce this process right now. However MG really need to strengthen their information section and look over their communication strategies. What the players really need to hear is MG:s policy and intentions towards the players who suffers from this debacle in their network. What are MG:s plans? What are the companies thoughts and feelings about the whole Tusk affair?

First the liquidator needs to be ratified. MG can't obviously do that, it's in the hands of authorities in Vanuatu. I believe that MG is waiting for information about the big financial picture from the liquidator: how much are Tusks assets worth and how big are the companys total debt. They also of course needs to know how much money the players had in their accounts. When MG has that information I believe they rather quickly will say if the players can have all their money back. And if Tusks assets are sufficient and secured I believe Microgaming will step in and start paying the players. If they don't do this it can take years before players will be able to get their money if there are any left.
So far so good. My gut feeling is that the money were not "held in trust". MG would probably have knowledge about that and then players would have been informed, not? MG went to bed with Tusk and are now facing the consequences. Questions are now: how much has this relation damaged MG? Can MG survive without protecting their players who suffers from MG:s bad choice of partner? This are questions MG has to deal with and think very carefully about I believe.
My analysis of the situation can be totaly misleading. I have no experience from business law or such things. I've simply been brainstorming with myself in this post and hope it's not too annoying for anyone to read. It can also by chance be pretty close to the truth. Speculations are unfortunately all we got at this moment.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:49 PM   #912
fred2k
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

First thing should be to write a letter to the competent court in Vanuatu, asking for the details (they should be public)
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:51 PM   #913
unluckyone
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by fmohasse View Post

And for those of you who were defending or Sympathizing with the Poker skin owner... i have posted twice to send me the legal document between them and MPP so my lawyer can figure out if we have a case against the MPP and can go after them in Australia and i heard nothing.. i also send the owners 2 private message and again it was ignored!!! just thought i should let others know

cheers, (at least try to)
I'm not really surprised that the skin owners won't send you a copy of their agreement as it is likely to be bound by an NDA as most corporate dealings are.

Vanuatu lawyers:
http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/jvasdirlaw.html
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:04 PM   #914
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Something that might be of interest. I was playing at pokerhost, and client crashed and I got an MPP error message. So I guess MPP is connected to pokerhost too.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:05 PM   #915
fmohasse
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I post it before and here goes again. in the following document it was mentioned that Player balances held in trust check out the balance sheet on page 18.

http://www.globalapproach.com.au/ann...pertreport.pdf

Also have to mention that this is 2 years old and tusk and global approach have nothing to do with each other now. But it is good fuzzy feeling that at some point according to an independent review the money were hold in trust.

however whether tusk have any money to pay up or not is different matter. After reading a lot of stuff and talking to lawyers i think all we can do is to make sure the liquidator treat players fund as money in trust. that puts us ahead of the line to get paid as oppose to being trade credit that puts us dead last.

So please find a lawyer in Vanuatu get him to find the liquidator info for tusk investment corporation limited and confirm if the fund is being hold in trust and if not being retrace back to trust (as was suggested by someone else earlier in the post)

Finding a lawyer there seemed to be much harder than i thought. I am still email them. nut if anyone found a lawyer in Vanuatu please email me his contact info FundInTusk@hotmail.com
I got 20 something other players that might be interested in hiring a lawyer to represent our rights.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:22 PM   #916
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by TheRaiderr View Post
Something that might be of interest. I was playing at pokerhost, and client crashed and I got an MPP error message. So I guess MPP is connected to pokerhost too.
I believe that MGS use the term MPP to mean something like Multi-Player Poker as I've seen it across many different Prima skins in the past. I don't believe it is related to My Poker Profit.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:56 PM   #917
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by mustmuck View Post
I believe that MGS use the term MPP to mean something like Multi-Player Poker as I've seen it across many different Prima skins in the past. I don't believe it is related to My Poker Profit.
thats a relief I was starting to get very worried.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:18 PM   #918
acethiest
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmohasse View Post
Has anyone found a lawyer in Vanuatu yet??? i was looking for one and it is really hard to trust a lawyer that does not even have a website. and Many of the one that have website then the site is not working!!!! guess it is not just the law that is backdated to 1914!

If anyone have made a contact with a lawyer in vanuatu please post or send me his/her contact info. I just want to get a lawyer to find out the liquidator name and number and verify if the funds are being hold in trust.

And for those of you who were defending or Sympathizing with the Poker skin owner... i have posted twice to send me the legal document between them and MPP so my lawyer can figure out if we have a case against the MPP and can go after them in Australia and i heard nothing.. i also send the owners 2 private message and again it was ignored!!! just thought i should let others know

cheers, (at least try to)
Yes I have repeatedly mentioned the inability of skins to disclose information to players regarding tusk. Battlefield manager has spoke to tusk on phone (he has said so in previous messages) but claims all contact is by msn (which is ridiculous). The only skin willing to speak seems CPT which is a fairly new skin and I truly believe is a victim as well (I'd try to get info from them if possible).

Once this mess gets sorted out I will devote more time to figuring out who the skins are and who is running them to ensure they don't start up any new companies. I also beleive a few other sites may be involved as well but will not name them since I don't want to drag their name through the mud if I am wrong. But getting my money back is my first priority at moment before I start looking the owners of the skins.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:17 PM   #919
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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The first one on that list, Geoffrey Gee & Partners, is Tusk's Vanuatu lawyers.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:37 PM   #920
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

i wish u all GL on getin lawyers i dont no how it work if the lawyer is based out of US but pacific blocked my acct yrs ago an my lawyer told me i couldnt sue i would have better luck sueing a drug dealer for none delivery since i was american citizen
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:44 PM   #921
acethiest
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

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Originally Posted by Self Made View Post
The first one on that list, Geoffrey Gee & Partners, is Tusk's Vanuatu lawyers.
Interesting Gee was the lawyer who represented kazza (post napster).

http://www.onlinereporter.com/articl...rticle_id=4062
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:10 AM   #922
BigThangz
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

maybe this dude can help out
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:02 AM   #923
fmohasse
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

just a random fact
did you know that the national anthem Vanuatu is called "Yumi, Yumi, Yumi" pretty funny for a country that host offshore company that can get away with our money and sing yumi yumi yumi...

"yumi" means "we" in Bislama their national language.
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:03 AM   #924
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

I found this site with some vanuatu lawyers and accountants in such a small country maybe you find the liquidator in one of them or someone with that information.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/P...anuatu/Lawyers

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/P...tu/Accountants
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:55 AM   #925
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Re: Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

If someone have deposited in the poker room by a Bank wire transfer that could be the Tusk bank account number where all the players money is.

That information could be important to track the money location and for further investigation.
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