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Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close? Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?

03-07-2008 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustmuck Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
Also, can somebody list the times in the past that MG have bailed out a skin?
I don't believe this has happened with a MG poker room in the past, just casinos. If you want the specific properties' names, you'd probably do better to ask in the Casinomeister thread on this subject. jetset and others there probably remember exactly which properties it happened with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashjr Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
While correct, the players/skins/MGS could litigate over whether the players funds are held in trust or if they are general unsecured debts. This is the key to the entire debacle from the players' perspective.
Even if there is a shortfall, MG would probably come through with the balance, so there would be no need for litigation.

Last edited by Self Made; 03-07-2008 at 10:57 PM. Reason: changed wording, corrected punctuation
03-07-2008 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Made Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
I think there probably will be a shortfall, and MG probably will come through with the balance, so there would be no need for litigation.
Assuming the players are considered unsecured creditors and MGS intends to make the players whole, don't you think MGS would rather get that 6m shortfall or whatever it is from Tusk through litigation rather than out of its own pocket? Your other posts have been more thought out than this one.
03-07-2008 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashjr Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
Assuming the players are considered unsecured creditors and MGS intends to make the players whole, don't you think MGS would rather get that 6m shortfall or whatever it is from Tusk through litigation rather than out of its own pocket? Your other posts have been more thought out than this one.
I meant necessity for litigation by the players. I doubt MG could change the priority of debts in liquidation anyway: that's generally very clear in the law.
03-08-2008 , 12:13 AM
I doubt MGS ever made a shortfall of that much if indeed the player purses are badly depleted.

I would be curious to know how much they covered in some of the casinos that went under. Remembering with Casinos people usually put money in and lose it. I mean who just leaves half a million in a casino? But it happens a lot in poker rooms.

Last edited by TheRaiderr; 03-08-2008 at 12:22 AM.
03-08-2008 , 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlefield Poker Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
As stated in previous posts, Rakereduction \ Rakeupdate is a close personal friend of mine. (I believe they posted that in this thread). A lot of the prima skins have friends \ portals etc.

Those sites you listed, A company Called dreams Ignite Pte Ltd provides the hosting and operations for several us and several other companies. I don't do any hosting myself obviously.

We have updated our webpage, but the problem is we have no news.

Like I said in previous statements, the only news I have are rumors. I think posting rumors would do far more harm than good.

All I can tell you is that we are working on it, this is my lively hood. This is all I have. I started out with nothing and made something out of it and watched it crumble in a matter of seconds. I have just as much at stake as all of you. BFP is, as stated previously, a glorified affiliate. We have no control over the support, software, money, back end, front end, licenses, nothing. We are basically a portal for Tusk\MPP whatever you want to call them, and they licesnse through MGS.

Who should you be contacting? MGS. I think the ball is in MGS's court. If Tusk cannot pay (And I believe they will have no choice if they CAN pay) then the burden relies on MGS to make good on player balances. The questions that should be asked and answered by MGS is 'what if'.

They aren't talking to us, that is all I can say.
So what you're saying is that you basically scammed us?
I trusted my money to your poker room and my agreement was with you, now you're telling me you're nothing more than an affiliate?
Battlefield has gotten me into this mess, and has been lying to us from the start and has been very unactive as well.
Battlefield is hiding behind others, while i find them 100% responsible.
It was your choice to go into sea with TUSK not mine, so take responsibility
.
03-08-2008 , 01:05 AM
Hi All I'm thinking of making a seperate thread for this, but first I'd like to know what you guys think about my idea, and if you do like it when would you like to start?

Please let me know if you think this is a bad idea too.

The following could be done in order to show our displeasure with MGS over this whole issue. It could be done by each one of us every 1-2 days (don't do it anymore often)

1. LOG INTO YOUR ACCOUNT
2. JOIN A LOW STAKES FULL RING GAME
-low stakes players less likely to know about this, and more likely to be new players.
3. TYPE in the chat box "POKERMANAGER"
pokermanager will answer you when he shows up
4. In a truthful and polite manner briefly describe your situation.
i.e.
"hi pokermanger, I am getting a system error when I try to sit at tables, I have heard rumours that my microgaming casino has lost player funds and I am very worried about my money. Can you do anything on behalf of microgaming to help me?"
poker manager will respond
"TY pokermanager no one is returning my emails and I would like to speak to microgaming to ensure that my money is safe, do you have their email or phone contact number?"
pokermanager will answer.
"TY again for your time pokermanager and I truly hope microgaming will return my money"

Again this is just a sample convo. Please don't be rude, but do make sure you voice your worry and hope that microgaming (make sure you say microgaming in convo) will help us or provide us with information.

5. Stick around for 1 minute after the convo incase any of the current players at the table have questions. If current players do ask questions explain your situation further or direct them to twoplustwo forums.

If we get a few dozen of us to do this once each day I figure news will spread quickly and maybe support will give us contact info for Microgaming.
03-08-2008 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlefield Poker Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
We typically only talked to the Tusk employees who managed the sites via MSN or emails.

Last week when all hell broke loose, we were like what is going? They were on MSN and answering emails. Then suddenly they all went offline at the same time. No more emails, no more MSN.
While I realize most of the casino business was run solely over msn I imagine you must have some contact information regarding their address or phone numbers, or names of main individuals involved.

I imagine initial contracts involved actual names of owners and not just MSN screen names...

While players may not have any better luck getting a response this information would be very valuable in shedding light on who tusk is. I see no reason why it would have to be kept secret from players.

OBV I would appreciate a response from any relevant skin/individual not just battlefield
03-08-2008 , 01:18 AM
poker managers refer you to your oporater been there done that
03-08-2008 , 01:19 AM
I think the more I post, the more people are getting angry with me. There is nothing I can do right now. Believe me please, behind the scenes we are trying every option we can think of to make sure the players are made whole.

I will post again when I have more news, otherwise please private message me if you have a specific question, I think I am doing more harm than good posting latley.
03-08-2008 , 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkr_brat Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
poker managers refer you to your oporater
The main point is to openly voice your concern at a full microgaming table.

Pokermanager will most likely just refer to operator. At which point say that operator is not returning your emails and that you need microgaming to help. Ask for microgaming email and again explain that you are very worried and hope that that microgaming will help.
03-08-2008 , 01:23 AM
Battlefield Poker, I appreciate you posting here and it was with your skin that I have my money trapped in the whole tusk/mgs debacle.

When you say you are doing everything possible behind the scenes that includes a lawyer/team of lawyers aggressively looking into this situation amirite? I'm just checking.
03-08-2008 , 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoelofZ Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
So what you're saying is that you basically scammed us?
I trusted my money to your poker room and my agreement was with you, now you're telling me you're nothing more than an affiliate?
Battlefield has gotten me into this mess, and has been lying to us from the start and has been very unactive as well.
Battlefield is hiding behind others, while i find them 100% responsible.
It was your choice to go into sea with TUSK not mine, so take responsibility
.

F*ck off, you are being nothing but an idiotic prick. I probably have far more than 10x invested in this than you. Stop being such a child with your name calling and read the thread and the history behind all of this before you post such crap.
03-08-2008 , 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by acethiest Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
While I realize most of the casino business was run solely over msn I imagine you must have some contact information regarding their address or phone numbers, or names of main individuals involved.

I imagine initial contracts involved actual names of owners and not just MSN screen names...

While players may not have any better luck getting a response this information would be very valuable in shedding light on who tusk is. I see no reason why it would have to be kept secret from players.
Various ownership and contact info for Tusk has been posted in this thread. But if they won't talk to the skins they won't talk to you either. And the company is still going to be liquidated.

If you want to do something useful, the only thing I can think of that might be useful is paying a lawyer to keep an eye on the liquidation process in Vanuatu.
03-08-2008 , 04:07 AM
I hope none of you actually think what microgaming nor battlefield are saying is actually true.

First of all liquidations take MONTHS to prepare and then finalize. A company does not go insolvent over night. They had to have known this was going to happen, or was happening.

From what I gather these skins were nothing more then rakeback companies. They don't operate the games, the cashier, or anything else. All they do is recruit players and collect a check at the end of the month.

The only reason this guy from Battlefield is even posting is because he is most likely still owed money. I am sure if he was fully paid, he would have disappeared long ago. Also he says that he has no access to emails but can update the domain.. K that is pure and utter bull. If you can update the domain, emails from that domain will come to you as well.

This matter is fairly absurd, and VERY shady. It looks like this company "tusk" decided to run away with player funds. A company with hardly any expenses wouldnt go bankrupt.

Microgaming and skins are just covering for them and making things up while they figure out what to do. The only thing that concerns me, is that who knows if microgaming is part of the scam. It's not like the online gaming business is nearly as lucrative as it once was. Perhaps they thought they could hit and run so to speak, and get out while they can with a profit.

Only time will tell.
03-08-2008 , 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flopturnriver Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
I hope none of you actually think what microgaming nor battlefield are saying is actually true.

First of all liquidations take MONTHS to prepare and then finalize. A company does not go insolvent over night. They had to have known this was going to happen, or was happening.

From what I gather these skins were nothing more then rakeback companies. They don't operate the games, the cashier, or anything else. All they do is recruit players and collect a check at the end of the month.

The only reason this guy from Battlefield is even posting is because he is most likely still owed money. I am sure if he was fully paid, he would have disappeared long ago. Also he says that he has no access to emails but can update the domain.. K that is pure and utter bull. If you can update the domain, emails from that domain will come to you as well.

This matter is fairly absurd, and VERY shady. It looks like this company "tusk" decided to run away with player funds. A company with hardly any expenses wouldnt go bankrupt.

Microgaming and skins are just covering for them and making things up while they figure out what to do. The only thing that concerns me, is that who knows if microgaming is part of the scam. It's not like the online gaming business is nearly as lucrative as it once was. Perhaps they thought they could hit and run so to speak, and get out while they can with a profit.

Only time will tell.
I'd say this is true in general except that you sound surprised, like it's a shock that skins don't handle money, etc. Been like that on all poker rooms for a lot of years with few exceptions.

I wouldn't think Microgaming is part of the ripoff but certainly they may have had knowledge earlier and could have stepped up. Not sure why they ever allowed them to handle their own money anyways. Very stupid mistake.
03-08-2008 , 04:45 AM
Although I sympathise with Battlefield's predicament, other posters have a point. <---- I DONT

The players thought they were entrusting their money to Battlefield, not to Tusk. The players had never even heard of Tusk until recently. The primary responsibility of Battlefield was surely to make sure the balances of players were safe. Since Battlefield (and others) have apparently failed in that respect, they must bear much of the responsibility! <-- THAT IS WHAT IS PSSING ME REALLY OFF !!

In any event, perhaps Battlefield could tell us who to lobby in the meantime. Who exactly are Battlefield contacting at Tusk and can we help by contacting these people direct requesting information?

And who exactly should we lobby at Microgaming to make them understand that this affair threatens to undermine their whole network?

In my opinion this all is a big ****ing joke and i hope i will never meet anyone of this guys who r responsible for this SCAM (IT IS A SCAM NOTHING ELSE)

NO MOFO TOLD ME THAT IM DEPOSITING IN AN INVESTMENT GROUP WHO IS JEOPARDIZING MY ****ING MONEY MY MONEY U KNOW ? INTO SOME STUPID AFRICAN OR ASIAN FUNDS OR WHATEVER ....
03-08-2008 , 05:19 AM
http://www.purchase-on-net.com/

This address shows up in my neteller history next to my BFP cashout 1 month ago. Don't know why only your friend got this kind of email... does he have large sums of money @ BFP?
03-08-2008 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkr_brat Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
if a skin makes 62.5% of the rake how is it they can give us 60% of it? surly they make more than 2.5%
The common sense answer is that part of your 60% rakeback comes from MPP's share of the pie. Consider an example:

Suppose I could attract $X/month of rake business by offering 50% rakeback. My cut of that business is 12.5% and I make 12.5% of $X/month minus operating expenses. MPP's share of this business is 20% of $X/month.

OR

I could offer 60% rakeback and (say) triple my business. This would cost me a lot of money because I only get 2.5% of $3X/month. But MPP would be gleeful because their profit triples to 20% of $3X/month.

You see where this is going? MPP is being too greedy in this example by insisting on 20% of $3X/month because the rakeback skin has no reason to cooperate. Both the rakeback operator and MPP benefit from the extra business brought in by increasing the rakeback to 60% and both should pay for it. In this example if MPP reduces its cut to 15% then the rakeback skin would make 7.5% and everyone is making a lot more money then they would have if MPP had stubbornly insisted on 20% and rakeback stayed at 50%.

These numbers are completely made up but the point is clear. It is very likely that MPP gave the big rakeback skins a better deal with the understanding that the extra money was to be used to pay competitive rakeback that would attract lots of additional customers to MPP's business.
03-08-2008 , 06:01 AM
Vanuatu's military consist of a small, mobile, corps of 300 volunteers from wikapedia,

For people who have alot of money tied up there, purchase an army of missionaries and invade vanuatu and take all the money tusk still has left and reimburse all the players
03-08-2008 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by romanwarrior Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
Vanuatu's military consist of a small, mobile, corps of 300 volunteers from wikapedia,

For people who have alot of money tied up there, purchase an army of missionaries and invade vanuatu and take all the money tusk still has left and reimburse all the players
03-08-2008 , 06:14 AM
LOL

IF VANUATU'S ARMY IS EVEN 1% AS GOOD AS SPARTANS THAN I WOULDNT PROPOSE THAT IDEA.
03-08-2008 , 06:36 AM
This is clearly getting out of hand fast.
It really sounds like a scam.

Picture Joe poker player. He has money in an account, then one day his money is frozen. He can't get a hold of the support, or anyone else, and he hasn't even heard of twoplustwo (yet). How does Joe not think that they are trying to run off with his money. If this wasn't the case, they, who ever they is, would at least have sent some type of notification to players about what is going on. The fact that they haven't, and the way getting info has been so tough all but proves that they are probbably planning to run with our money.
We need to keep digging and figure out what we can actually do. There are real people behind this somewhere. I do not have that much money tied up as some, but it's still a large chunk of change by any means, and i am really pissed about it.
There must be some really seedy people behind all this, and the way all these companies are orgainized and are/aren't tied together is really sketchy.
03-08-2008 , 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubeticall Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
http://www.purchase-on-net.com/

This address shows up in my neteller history next to my BFP cashout 1 month ago. Don't know why only your friend got this kind of email... does he have large sums of money @ BFP?
It says on that page that they are a subsidary of Golden Reef, which I can only infer means that they are somehow under Tusk, since Golden Reef is under Tusk. right?
03-08-2008 , 07:51 AM
I neither work for MPP or have a skin.

I did come close to signing up for a skin hence my insight how to this company works.

My whole view of this is that the problem came from MPP ends, perhaps they weren't making enough from the skins, I did some calculations and decided to pull out as after all the owner charges (deposit fees and chargebacks, loyalty program, affiliate deals and any site freerolls) there wasn't much left. Also a quite a few of the sites seem to run off the generic website provided by MPP, I can't really see how many of them other than the ones giving away the extra rakeback would be able to drive traffic as they don't seem to offer anything.

It is certainly in MGS interest to step in once the liquidators report is done for two reasons:

1) Many players with trapped money are high volume / high end players, they only played at certain sites on the MGS network due to the rakeback. It is unlikely they will continue to play at MGS sites unless this comes to a satisfactory resolution soon.

2) MPP were the sole providers of a network solution for small time operators. If they go down MGS will need to look for someone else to step into offer this solution. It may be in their interests to pick up the pieces as their is still foundations in place from the MPP model for them to take over the accounts of the existing operators (if those operators can survive this - I think some will come out alright due to their niche marketss, the RB commpanies will probably not survive as the RB on offer was the only way they could attract players - and as mentioned earlier two of them BFP and R9 were being removed from the network before the whole liquidation issue was brought up) and also to offer a solution for other companies to get a skin on the network.

IF MGS cannot bail out the players accounts I feel they will suffer terribly due to the bad publicity that will come their way. This will probably make all the poker magazines in the next month or two depending on publication dates.
03-08-2008 , 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPP Mole Battlefield Poker and 27 other Microgaming skins to close?
MPP were the sole providers of a network solution for small time operators. If they go down MGS will need to look for someone else to step into offer this solution.
I think this model is finished. After the experiences with Futurebet and Tusk, I don't think any of the major software providers is going to let licensees "sublicense" cheap white label skins again. Only time will tell if I'm right of course.

      
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