Still no information... the liquidator is killing us all!

here's my question and I'm sorry if it's been answered already. How are there games playing right now at red9s, but I still can't sit down?

Microgaming has many skins, red9s is only one of them so there are still plenty of players who can play. I also played yesterday on GNUF

Still no news. I know that you all want us to post more, but literally we have no concrete news. I don't want to post rumors and gossip. I think that will only further complicate the problems, so I won't post what I have been hearing or what people are speculating until MGS and \ or Tusk come out with something official and public with regards to the player purses, because at this point, that is the only thing that matters.

Battlefield Poker

I don't know if you have already answered this, if yes I apologize.
But I would like to know what is going to happen to the people who have tried to withdraw their money and now their poker account is empty and the money never reached its destination. Lets say everything turns out great and all Battlefield and Rednines players recieve their funds back. Would this be also true for those people who tried to withdraw?

Thanks for keeping us updated and you're 100% correct not to post any rumours you may have heard.

There's records of it, don't worry about it.

Can we get Battlefield or any other skin to chime in as to the times that Microgaming works and would be posting statement? I would assume if they're in the UK the workday is already over, so there is no point waiting on statement today. Is this correct?

15 minutes of research - I have no idea if it is current w/r/t Tusk being a subsidiary company of Talbot, but this time line is interesting:

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...capId=26605338
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...capId=26605430
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...090313031.html

Maybe one of the skin operators that posted can figure out who the main liquidators are in Queensland, if Talbot has liquidated any of its holdings prior to Tusk (and who did it), if any other Talbot holdings are implicated in the criminal proceedings, if Talbot has general counsel or who its normal outside counsel is and attempt to get in contact with them, and any other interesting facts that might be floating around out there. Then as a general strategy note, seeking a receivership of Tusk might be a better course of action than waiting for announcement of a liquidator while the principal of the holding company is facing corruption charges and the CFO is terminally ill with cancer. Talk to Australian counsel ASAP if you have not already.

Quit sitting around on your laurels waiting for direction from Tusk and Microgaming while your business future is so uncertain.

As for the players, I wish you all luck. I was just about to deposit on Rednines and am obviously thankful that I didn't do so. I sincerely hope you get your money back.

Call me a pessimist if you like, but I think things sound so messy that we will never get any of our money back from Tusk.

In the meantime, I do not intend to deposit any more in any Microgaming skin until I get every penny back from Battlefield.

Maybe if we all do that, Microgaming will get the message!

The Talbot Group recently sold its previously unlisted online gaming interests into Global Approach...

Source

As previously noted, the sale was later unwound, so presumably Talbot owns Tusk once again.

A 2005 article says:

...Queenslander Ken Talbot, a major stakeholder in Macarthur Coal, who grew his personal worth by 290 per cent to $506 million in the past year as shares in the miner lifted their value five times.

I phoned Global last week for info and they confirmed that their % in Tusk was returned to the original shareholder(s).

Also confirmed in this Global document -

http://www.globalapproach.com.au/ann...nts/415724.pdf

2. Reason for Capital Reduction
On or about 24 May 2006, the Company entered into an agreement with Tusk and the Vendors
whereby the Company agreed to acquire all of the issued capital in Tusk from the Vendors in
consideration for the issue to the Vendors of in aggregate one hundred and fifty-five million
(155,000,000) fully paid ordinary shares in the capital of the Company at a deemed issue price of
twelve and a half cents ($0.125) per share (the Transaction). The Company received shareholder
approval of the Transaction on 27 June 2006.
Subsequently on 30 September 2006 the United States Congress passed legislation effectively
prohibiting the receipt of money from players at casinos and poker rooms such as those operated
by the Company. This has had a significant effect on the Company’s business as approximately
80% of the Company’s casino revenue and 20% of the Company’s poker revenue had been
derived from the United States.
Accordingly, as announced by the Company on 27 November 2006, the Company proposes to
reverse the Transaction (Reversal). In order to effect the Reversal, the Company proposes to
transfer back to the Vendors all of the issued share capital of Tusk, totalling one hundred and four
thousand, one hundred and seventy-seven (104,177) shares, and carry out the selective capital
reduction and cancellation of the Cancellation Shares, being the one hundred and fifty-five million
(155,000,000) fully paid ordinary shares in the capital of the Company issued to the Vendors as
consideration for the Transaction.

Am I the only one who is starting to fall back to the pesismistic side? Almost a week now and aftre becoming optomistic from all the board posts I'm starting to feel more and more discouraged.

BTW please pm me any rumours because at this moment I'd rather here unfounded information than nothing at all....

I have been reading this thread with interest and have noticed some questions on Australia liquidators.

Here is a good fact sheet on how they work.
http://www.bankrupt.com.au/secure_pd...s/sheet_xs.pdf

Basically the process is very slow(12months normally sometimes years) which I guess is really bad news for you. I have seen a few in the news(im from australia) and it takes months for employees to get benefits they are owed.

According to Australian law the employees are the first people paid.

Then the secure creditors like banks are paid second. If MGS were a secured creditor they would of had a vote on if the company should go into liquidation as it was one started by Tusk.

Third are trade creditors which I assume would include the skins and in turn the players with funds in the accounts.

On the good side. They can't spend your money without liquidators approval. So putting the process in place they have essentially frozen everything.

Hi raider,

Thanks for the information. I don't suppose you would have any suggestions on how to proceed? I have a fair bit of money involved and am willing to do whatever is neccesary to ensure players get the funds they deserve. As a previously stated I am tiring of playing the waiting game and would hate to think that my inaction would contribute to a loss of my funds.

In the US this is a public filing. I don't know about Australia. The timing of the filing according to that document seems strange, but that is probably only because I am intimately familiar with US insolvency law and it is different. Why is it that Tusk went directly to liquidation rather than attempt to undergo a Voluntary Administration? http://www.bankrupt.com.au/secure_pd...s/sheet_rs.pdf
Unsecured creditors should be entitled to form a committee and hire counsel, at the company's expense, to independently examine the affairs of the company. This is how it works in the US, but again I have no clue how Australian insolvencies work procedurally.

I once again urge the skins that have posted here to hire Australian insolvency counsel ASAP.

Well its like this for me Battlefield have my cash i have pictures of it and there run by microgaming. So my cash is in microgaming's hands. I dont care about the middlemen. IMO if this isint sorted out soon i hope microgaming gets hit aswell as the rakeback guys who got us to sign at these no name sites in the 1st place.

Being qiuite is bs there must be a rep uz talk to you cant be mercy to an email address with your livly hood wrapped up in this. Get us some news better still get us some cash!

I belive it is significantly different process here to the US. Our laws appeared to be geared towards employee's with that going above all else. To spend money on anything but that until they have been paid is considered immoral.

The reason you go into voluntary administration is that the buisness can still run but can't cover debts. Liquidation is an agreement between the company and secured creditors they there is no hope for the buisness. This means closing the buisness with the ATO(Australian Tax Office) and gives the company the ability to pay creditors x cents in the dollar. I assume the later was decieded.

In Australia nothing like that can be done at the expense of the company but obviously they do have a claim.

It is also unclear if player funds are a company asset. Say a security company goes under while transporting funds for another company. Do those funds became an asset of the company going under. I don't think so. I imagine the same should apply for player funds although I also think this is where the problem many of occurred.

If someone could figure who on earth the liquidator is they would be the best people to contact. The owners of the skins in my opinion should not be waiting on Tusk or MGS but trying to find the liquidator. They would talk to all creditors.

I agree surley they cant hold the funds unless they have an insurer

If anyone has your cash it's Tusk. They're the one you gave it to. You might have thought you gave it to Battlefield, but they're just a glorified affiliate who sends traffic to Tusk's poker room. And Microgaming's Tusk's software vendor. The only one you have a legal relationship with is Tusk. It's like they're the bank and you're the depositor.

Agreed. Microgaming probably has no legal responsibility for the money (unless there is clauses that we can't see).

It is also interesting to note none of the players with funds tied up are Australian's as due to aussie law they were unable to accept Australian customers. There was a freeze put on online gaming sites a while back and any new Australian gaming sites can't accept Australian customers now.

Battlefield, or any of the Prima skins:

Let's say that, like me, your entire ****ing roll is trapped in this mess. Is now a good time to start selling off bonds or whatever to get money on another site so you can start making the money again? Or, would you wait a few more days because maybe something positive w/r/t your bankroll might happen?

This particular item is not different from in the U.S. Employees have the first claim on company assets for unpaid wages here as well.

The question of whether or not player purses are a company asset is an interesting one. Not sure how we can go about determining this, but it is crucial. If player purses are not a company asset, we need to make sure this money is frozen and not used to pay any debt. If it's not an asset, it should be able to be paid out first, and without the time involved in the rest of the mess.

I am starting to think that we, as players, need to find out who the hell this liquidator is and get some information from them.

Have any of you ballers with hundreds of thousands tied up gotten your lawyers to track down this info?

Jackflashdrive-

I wish I could give you some advice on that, but honestly, it would be nothing more than an opinion. We are TOTALLY in the dark. Niether side wants to make any kind of announcments at all regarding the players.

You'd think the most important thing here would be for both sides to address this, at least put out a statement, at least tell us. Nothing..

I am mind boggled, but as always, if I have news, I'll post here first.

Battlefield Poker

It appears that about 25% of Tusk is owned personally by Robert James Canning-Ure, who is (or was) a director of both Global Approach and Talbot Group.

Source:
http://www.globalapproach.com.au/ann...nts/415724.pdf


Since it appears that MGS has little regard for the players by not making any substantive announcement now that a full week has passed, I think a PR campaign against MGS might be in order to. I really think that affiliates should be informing MGS that they will not promote any MGS site until this is resolved, as well as the skins that continue to operate. If the other skins start feeling pain, maybe they will start to pressure MGS. 2+2 should also refuse advertising from MGS skins. I think that is reasonable for them to do considering that their members are affected by MGS' actions.

I disagree
when they have the microgaming on it there Prima what ever they do is up to them im playing on ther site, If microgaming let people hanle accounts without any backup thats silly. I dunno how this works but to me that seems mad were not talkin $ here its big money a big company would not be so reckless.