This is a full-disclosure thread regarding my recent removal from Full Tilt. I do this as a public service to the 2+2 community, and hopefully to reach the right ears and have the decision overturned.

All emails, screenshots, and other evidence will be posted in their entirety, without editing to protect my identity. At this point, I'm not concerned about 2+2 knowing my name, or knowing how to exploit my play in the future. I'm interested in clearing my name and getting my livelihood back.

Up front, I'll state that I am a shortstacker. I don't care how much you hate me, because everyone can agree that while I might be a ratholing scumbag, I am not breaking any rules. If FT were to ever pass rules against shortstacking, I'd stop doing it or I'd leave FT. Poker is my main source of income, meager as it is. I wouldn't risk my livelihood on something stupid like an auto-folder.

You can look me up in your databases, or on any online database as SoberIRL.

The strategy I play is indeed very simple. I learned it by studying the comments made by curtains, MT2R, Imsakidd, and working with my poker coach. I've never discussed this publicly because of the understandable stigma regarding shortstacking. I can see how, at first glance, one might mistake me for a bot.

I 16 table NL1 for 2 hours/day maybe 4 days/week. I put in around 30k hands/month, and make about .5 BB/100. With rakeback, I make something like $20-25/hr. The only software I have ever used is Poker Tracker2/HUD and PT3. I've never used Pokerhound, Hold'em Manager, or AHK/table opener. Here's some screenshots of my PT3 database:









And here's a bigger list of my session times. I can email anyone the exported excel spreadsheet from PT3 (.csv):




I think that anyone can agree that those look like the numbers of a lazy, rather-unskilled shortstacking reg. If you had a $25/hr bot, would you be putting in 10 hours/week tops? Any of my regs (briancheng, Roon2020, giveusakiss, claim0r, utickle igiggle, Mawrich, NWICL, etc.) could chime in, saying they've seen me chat, time out, and occasionally go on monkey tilt.

I do not datamine, I do not use PT3's TableTracker.

9 days ago, I received the following email from Full Tilt:

I replied immediately with the following:

This email was never responded to, and I had no further contact with Full Tilt. I did send a followup email 4 days later:

Early this morning, I received this:

So, the two things I'm specifically accused of (with no evidence) is using some kind of bot/script, and using some kind of decision-aiding program. Neither of these allegations are true, and I feel like I'm being mugged.

I understand and appreciate Full Tilt's diligence in trying to keep the games fair, and was content with waiting out their investigation. A glance at this forum will reveal a large amount of players in similar situations, and it's been documented as widespread here, though the circumstances surrounding these other cases tend to vary. Any increased security will inevitably lead to false positives, but one would hope that each case was properly examined, and that all parties involved were included in the process.

So, 2+2, I ask you to consider my case. I play a simple game, derived greatly from my days as a SNG player at Party. It's a simple game, but I play it all myself, and I've been banned for cheating. How comfortable do you feel playing at a site where you might be banned for exhibiting play patterns that trip automated red flags, which are calibrated with zero public disclosure?

Ask me questions, ask for more screenshots, offer advice, ponder the safety of your own funds if you like. Please spare me the dieshortstackersdie mess, I get it enough at the tables. I can't log into my account, and I don't know if my bankroll is going to be confiscated.

I'm going to a friend's house for Christmas dinner now, but I'll answer any and all questions as promptly as I can. My poker coach will likely drop in soon and make a statement/answer questions as well.

Good luck getting your account re-opened. Sean said to take some of the info with a grain of salt, but not sure if he was just pointing to you.

From the other thread on this, it looks like tilt, no surprise, hasn't been communicating well and one of the emails they stated (doesn't look like your case) said it was inconclusive, but they closed it because of similar characteristics of patterns found with people who broke their rules. This didn't make much sense, though it could have just been worded poorly.

Hopefully one of the reps will at least tell us what's allowed and what's not. Their prohibited list doesn't really have programs listed on it IIRC.

Maybe it's a false positive though, we'll see. Aside from communicating though, they usually get this kind of stuff right, not saying I don't believe you though.

This is how you make a post defending yourself.
Good luck to you OP

+1. That whole 'full disclosure' bit is awfully refreshing compared with all the "please post the e-mails and/or HH's" type replies that take forever to receive a response from the OP and stuff like that.

So my first instinct is that this is legit and that FT got a false-positive somehow. Hard to say for sure.

Worth noting though that the argument of "so and so has seen me chat before" isn't really worth a damn. One can certainly chat while their bot is running. Or one can play live some of the time and run a bot other parts of the time. etc etc. The only thing that chat proves is that there is a person at the keyboard at that particular moment (assuming the chat is somewhat unique and not some pre-programmed "Hi, what's up?" or "NH" type of thing). It doesn't at all prove that no bot has ever been involved.

Also - the OP mentioned in one of his e-mails that evidently FT has been cracking down on several players lately. I've been a bit out of it but this has me curious. Do we have any discussions about other FT bannaments taking place around here?


edit - Okay...now I see otter's thread but that's a lot of reading. Might skim through it. Any other discussions of recent worth being aware of?

So, 2+2, I ask you to consider my case. I play a simple game, derived greatly from my days as a SNG player at Party. It's a simple game, but I play it all myself, and I've been banned for cheating. How comfortable do you feel playing at a site where you might be banned for exhibiting play patterns that trip automated red flags, which are calibrated with zero public disclosure?[/QUOTE]

Actually, not very comfortable. I've long thought you can put online poker players into one of two categories: those who cheat and hope they are not caught and those who don't cheat and hope nobody mistakenly believes that they are. I didn't look into the stats that you provide, but I would imagine that the shortstacker style, being limited in its strategical depth, will look more bot-like than a full-stack style.

Is it possible to set up some kind of advocacy or adjudication service, independent of both players and sites, to which both parties could make a case? I do applaud FTP, PS and other responsible sites for taking action to eliminate cheating, but that the sites act as police, jury and executioner does not serve justice.

Wow that must suck real bad how much $$ did they confiscate out of your account?

Appreciated, and I agree about the chat thing, though I know I've had some extensive back-and-forth conversations with some of my regs. Just throwing in everything that comes to mind at the moment.

I'm not 100% sure they'll confiscate my roll, as the language in the last email is ambiguous, but it's a solid NL1 roll i.e. 4 figures.

4 figures!!!?!?!?!

Is it $07.45?!?!


Haha. Sorry to joke while you're sweating this but I couldn't resist. Even though FT is (potentially) screwing you over you can still have a sense of humor, right?!?

Doesn't OP mean a .50/1 roll, i.e. something >$1000?

I would find it hard to locate my sense of humour if so.

more than enough to play short shove JJ+ game. good luck OP, also pm FTPDOUG here, see if he can response to this.

I really wish that Full Tilt would give us a list of programs we cannot use. Although it may not be the problem in this instance, it sure would help all of us know exactly what we can and cannot do.

Why would anyone play on Full Tilt? It's the poor man's version of UB/AP. When there is an option such as PokerStars out there, it boggles my mind why anyone would play anywhere else.

GL to you OP. It was because of crap like this why I moved my play to Stars.

Good Luck. You put together a nice post.

Doesn't make me like SS'ers though!

I'm one of the other's in otters thread whose account has been suspended since the 19th for investigation. I also ShortStack. So I'm beginning to wonder if that's what's giving us trouble more than PT3. Skylander, who's investigation full tilt ruled inconclusive, but was banned anyway, also said he occasionally shortstacked. Perhaps that's what we share with known cheaters. If that's the case, then full tilt can solve the problem (and make a lot of people here happy) by raising the min buyin.

?????

OP made mention of it and now tyler did? What's shortstacking have to do with this? It's just a matter of preference and is obviously allowed.

edit: bots??

OP, whatever you do....pls stay away from Stars, we have enough shortstackers GL.

Right, but its something 3 of us atleast have in common. As far as we know PT3 is allowed too. Something we think is allowed is not, and shortstacking can make you appear a bot. Try short stacking for a while and watch your chat window, someone will call you a bot, especially if you win.

OP, you put together a nice post and i hope you get this resolved if you are innocent.

Just a minor point.

While SSing is not against the rules, isn't ratholing implicitly against the rules since FT doesn't allow you to sit back in on the same table for 30 minutes unless you sit with your full amount? Obviously, people get around this by sitting at another table instead, which i assume that you're doing? Perhaps this appears to be "bot-like" to FT?

Btw, i'm not condemning. I have no opinion for or against ratholing. Just curious about the interpretation of the rules.

man this is total horse ****. good luck OP...hope things work out.

I really hope FTP isn't spaz-banning anyone reported as a bot.

3. The following types of programs may not be allowed during play, depending on their specific use:

* Subscription services that provide extra information about opponents, such as tournament histories and statistics
* Programs that could be used for collusion between players
* Programs that provide or assist in table selection
* Poker calculators that compute poker probabilities or hand values
* Other programs that confer an unfair advantage to the user

would table tracker in pt3 be considered one of these?

depending on their specific use:
does that mean if they want to ban you, they can?

Yes, that's what he means. I was just making a silly joke that $0001 could be construed as "4 figures." If it's inappropriate then I apologize but even if sober never gets any of his money back (which he's obviously and legitimately concerned about) you still have to laugh at SOMETHING. I know if I lost $10k or had it stolen or whatever I wouldn't go the rest of my life without laughing or smiling.

I do hope the OP gets his money back and gets this straightened out and I also directed to FTPSean another of my "Please wake up and acknowledge you might have goofed" type posts in the other FT thread started by otter.

they are doing you a massive favor. you are a pathetic human to play 180k hands to make $1,000.

go do something productive with your time.