First level of a $65 daily turbo at the local casino. This tournament frequently has first timers, so everyone is friendly and the mood is light. 2 guys at my table who are clearly very new to live poker, maybe to poker period.

Blinds 25\50, effective stacks about 6.5k. New guy is UTG and he calls 50. MP calls. I have AQ so I raise to 225. folds back to UTG, who fumbles with his chips and puts out 2 1K chips. Then he indicates that he was trying to call and couldn't tell the difference between the chips. I told the dealer it didn't bother me if that was a call, but that offer wasn't really considered an option. MP folds. So of course I shove. He calls with AJ.

Taking my word for it that I was pretty confident that he really was a new player and this wasn't a move, does anyone think it is unethical to exploit a mistake like that? I was pretty comfortable with my hand against his range.

Eh, it's pretty much shove or forfeit your initial raise and your equity in all the dead money to the guy who made a mistake, right? He knows you tried to bail him out, which was chill of you btw. He doesn't blame you for doing what was obvious after the fact. I don't either.

Dealer didn't allow it? Seems like the kind of game where this would be allowed. I think you're right to suggest that he should be allowed to take it back. Once it has been ruled a raise though, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing your hand the best way you can.

Sounds like you were pretty sure this wasn't the case, but half the time I see this, it's an angle.

It can happen. I'm no novice but had a situation at Foxwoods where the blinds were 100/200 and I tossed out two chips to call except that instead of two black chips i accidentally tossed out a black 100 chip and a dark blue 5000 chip. I said I intended to make a call, but the dealer said the chips were binding since I did not announce the bet before I tossed the chips. In that spot, everybody folded, but the bet was binding, regardless of what any of the other players may have wanted.

I was in a cash game once, not involved in the hand. P1 bets $50. P2 holds up a black chip, looks at the dealer, taps the chip twice, then throws it in. Dealer announces call.

P2 says "I meant to raise!" Dealer says "I already declared it a call." P1 says "I'm ok with it being a raise" and dealer says "Ok, it's a raise." and P1 starts digging into his stack for what looks like a re-raise. P2 then says "I'm not ok with it!"

Dealer switches back to it being a call.

Moral of the story, if the player makes a deliberate action and any time has passed, it should stand. Trying to go back and change it just leaves the door open to angling.

To the OP - shoving after it's been settled that it is a raise is fine. Personally I wouldn't say anything while new guy and dealer are working it out though. It could be considered an angle if you were pushing for the outcome you wanted. If they end up on a decision you think is against the rules, ask for a floor and say nothing while they discuss it unless it's to correct something about how the action is described.

They are pretty strict about the betting line, and there was another limper between the raiser and myself who was yet to act, so I think it would have been just too confusing for the dealer to roll back the raise.

If the guy was angling, he as doing one hell of a consisten act. He sat in the wrong seat to start with. On the first hand, he had to be told 3 times it was his action, then be told what his options were. He struggled with every aspect of how to play live poker. Yeah, that can all be faked, but it really isn't worth it at a $65 tourney.

No, he could have called, he didn't have to raise or fold.

Super room/Dealer dependent here. The 'dailies' are supposed to generate traffic in the room and the tone for these tournaments should be lighter IMO. However, we have had threads, even this week, that are discussing how gray IS gray.

Once the matter was resolved I don't blame OP for shoving or even if he had called and then tried to just check it down somehow. Being a tournament you do need to protect the interests of the other tables, but I go back to my original comment .. it's a daily. GL

No, we know what his literal available options are, chillrob. He said "of course I shove" which implies that calling was not a practical choice.

I shoved because I was trying to exploit the mistake. The question at hand really is if anyone thinks it is not ok to exploit an honest mistake made by a beginner.

I'm sure you would have liked to see the newbie allowed to act in accordance with his intention. But once the powers that be decide they weren't going to allow that, I think shoving is the right thing to do.

Don't see any issue. He could've just junked his hand and still had 4.5k.

Fine if you earnestly tried to let him take it back. Scummy if you at all tried to influence a call (if you said something like "that's a raise, isn't it?") or said nothing hoping it would be resolved in your favor.

Once it's confirmed that the bet stands all you can do is play poker. Given that it's a tournament it would actually be unethical to softplay.

No, I absolutely did not call him out on it, did not want the raise to stand. Knowing this room, I knew there was little chance they weren't going to enforce the bet, but I did make the offer of considering it a call sincerely. But once his passive money was in the pot, I did not pull any punches and absolutely exploited his mistake as much as I could.

I think you did the right thing but I wouldn't have phrased it like that. Instead of saying I'm fine with a call (which makes it sound like you prefer it), I'd say I'm fine with him doing whatever he wants to do. It's probably a nitty difference but long term you're going to have some cases where you really hope it's a call and other cases where you really hope it's a raise, so the best thing is to have a single response for your whole range.

There is 'lesson learned' in poker all the time. You try to resolve it and then move on now knowing the current spot in the hand.

Would you feel bad if the Flop was AQJ and he shoved on you without any consideration that you may have AQ or AA or QQ or JJ? Is that the same level of Rookie mistake?

We have threads where the offense is 'minimized' by the amount of chips involved all the time. I am in the 'teaching/learning' camp of the gray area .. but once the Dealer/Floor/Room make a decision I must now transition to 'poker' and move on. GL

I will always exploit poker mistakes, but it is different when it comes to procedural mistakes. however, if the dealer\floor couldn't correct it, I was of the mind that I could not let his mistake limit my actions, so I took full advantage. A couple of the regs at the table (friends of mine) were split. Most were on board with taking full advantage, but a couple thought I should have pulled my punches. Though, they might have been more upset that I was to their left and had just doubled up.

Seems more practical to me to call and see a flop in position than to fold to someone who accidentally raised.

Seems more practical to me to shove than to call and see a flop in position against someone who accidentally raised.

Probably so, but the post I was replying to was weighing the merits of raising vs folding, without considering calling. I could see the argument for calling, either for strategic reasons or to be nice to the guy who accidentally raised. Folding would be ridiculous.

No. And holding him to the raise wouldn't be unethical either. If you have to ask these types of questions you really need to be more competitive in the game. It's a competition. If you're not punishing others for their mistakes then you're not playing your best. This is not ****ing charity. If you want to be charitable donate to a charity of your choice.

I wouldn't hold it against someone if I was the villain here. I'd take it as a lesson to be more careful with my chips.

In a $65 friendly tournament, I'm all for giving novice players a break. Dealer should be able to tell from player's action what their intent was.
It really puts you in an awkward spot though given the stack sizes. You can't really just call there with AQ given stack depths. I'd feel bad for the guy, but what can you do?