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Old 05-07-2017, 07:33 AM   #1
psujohn
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Chip on the floor

As I understand it the casino considers that a chip on the floor is their property. I don't know if they'll go to any effort to return a chip to it's owner.

Lets say hypothetically that you see a chip on the floor. Let's say hypothetically that the chip is on the floor in a spot that's not in view of a camera. Let's say hypothetically that the chip is black.

Any qualms about pocketing the chip and saying nothing?
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:35 AM   #2
pokerponcho
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Re: Chip on the floor

A sizeable chip should be put in the lost and found, and if the owner cannot be found in 30 days then it's yours.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:48 AM   #3
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Re: Chip on the floor

Is there a likely owner nearby?
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:09 AM   #4
pokerponcho
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Re: Chip on the floor

Cameras can see who dropped it.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:31 AM   #5
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Re: Chip on the floor

The better hypothetical question is, "If you could steal something and not get caught, would you do it?" The circumstances are immaterial. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, "You're a thief. All we are doing is setting your price."
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:37 AM   #6
cardsharkk04
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Re: Chip on the floor

Just curious, if this chip is found out of view from the cameras, how would it ever get returned to the rightful owner? And if it's between the casino getting to keep this chip or me, I'm keeping it. But that's assuming there is no way to find out who lost it.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:54 AM   #7
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by cardsharkk04 View Post
Just curious, if this chip is found out of view from the cameras, how would it ever get returned to the rightful owner? And if it's between the casino getting to keep this chip or me, I'm keeping it. But that's assuming there is no way to find out who lost it.
Here is how it gets returned to its rightful owner.

You turn it in and tell them you found it ver near the blackjack tables.

Rightful owner realizes he is missing a black chip, goes to security tells them he dropped a black chip. They ask a few questions determine he was around the blackjack pit and return the black chip to him.

The bigger the amount of money the more likely the person goes to security which is why I have no problem with the guy who keeps the $1 chip he finds but I do with a guy who keeps the $1k chip.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:11 AM   #8
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Re: Chip on the floor

Your character is defined by what you do when you think no one is watching. IDK what I might do for sure, but I hope that I would likely consider keeping a small chip , but turn in a much larger chip to the dealer/floor. Just being honest about not being certain how I would act , and don't need a sermon from the casino morality police on what I should do LOL
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:51 AM   #9
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Let's say hypothetically that the chip is on the floor in a spot that's not in view of a camera.
There's no one standing nearby and no cameras on the spot. How exactly do we determine who's chip it is? There's no identifying mark or anything specific about the chip. If you stand up in a casino and say "Anybody lose a chip?" I suspect you'll get a lot of volunteers.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:11 PM   #10
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Re: Chip on the floor

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There's no one standing nearby and no cameras on the spot. How exactly do we determine who's chip it is?
Turn it in. If it's in a poker room or casino floor, there are cameras that can see it. In my room, $100 is the magic number where we will do our best to find the owner. Surveillance is very good at spotting who walked by the area while removing things from their pocket, or who walked by with an open rack that the chip fell from.

In the last two weeks, we have returned three $100 amounts by going to surveillance, including $100 bill found in an envelope in a garbage can, and a $100 underpayment at the cage when the cashier came up over.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:15 PM   #11
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Re: Chip on the floor

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There's no one standing nearby and no cameras on the spot. How exactly do we determine who's chip it is? There's no identifying mark or anything specific about the chip. If you stand up in a casino and say "Anybody lose a chip?" I suspect you'll get a lot of volunteers.
Even if there was only a 0.1% change of the chip getting back to its rightful owner, that doesn't make it OK for you to steal it. Unless you follow the finders keepers, losers weepers mantra from Shameless.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:36 PM   #12
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Re: Chip on the floor

If it's a $1 chip, I'm asking people around me if it's theirs and if nobody claims it, I'm throwing it to the dealer.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:45 PM   #13
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
As I understand it the casino considers that a chip on the floor is their property. I don't know if they'll go to any effort to return a chip to it's owner.

Lets say hypothetically that you see a chip on the floor. Let's say hypothetically that the chip is on the floor in a spot that's not in view of a camera. Let's say hypothetically that the chip is black.

Any qualms about pocketing the chip and saying nothing?
Perhaps the chip is under the poker table. As best I can tell, the cameras don't see under tables.

I look for a rack under the table, and see a black chip.

I speak up, I'm pretty sure that I'm not getting to keep that chip, and I'm not ready to hazard a guess to the likely percentage of it being returned to the person who dropped it.

I'd like to think I'm an honest guy. So, to be honest, I'm probably more concerned with the camera's seeing me pocket the chip and the consequences down the road if I'm confronted about it.

FWIW, white or red chip, and it's going to the dealer as a tip. I suppose that means I'm speaking up with a green chip.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:59 PM   #14
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Re: Chip on the floor

To be clear, the OP didn't stipulate that the chip was on the gaming floor.

Maybe it was on a piss-covered bathroom floor.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:20 PM   #15
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Re: Chip on the floor

$100 bill by an oblivious old's foot depositing his social security check in a slot as I walked by.

Pointed it out to him. Didn't acknowledge me or say thanks. Just scooped up the bill without a word and went back to flailing away at his 2 cent machine.

Next time I probably say nothing and just keep walking.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:33 PM   #16
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Re: Chip on the floor

One man gathers what another man spills
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:41 PM   #17
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Re: Chip on the floor

^^ chip goes in my pocket all day. lol at trusting other humans with it
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:04 PM   #18
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
As I understand it the casino considers that a chip on the floor is their property. I don't know if they'll go to any effort to return a chip to it's owner.
IANAL.

I don't think your assertion about how a casino will treat the found chip is accurate, at least not in all, and probably not in most, cases. The legal constructs vary by jurisdiction.

In most US jurisdictions, the law describes a difference between lost, mislaid, and abandoned property, and how each is to be handled. "A finder of property acquires no rights in mislaid property, is entitled to possession of lost property against everyone except the true owner, and is entitled to keep abandoned property." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost,_...doned_property

A chip you find on the floor is almost certainly going to be classified as lost property in most jurisdictions. The law in your jurisdiction will generally indicate what you, as the finder, are required to do to in each case. If you simply pocket the money (lost property) without any attempt to find the rightful owner, you are generally committing "theft by finding" or some such.

Depending on your duty as the finder, you may be required to turn over the property to the owner of the establishment or to the local police. I don't know whether jurisdictions typically allow you to simply tell the owner that you found specific property, and let you retain physical possession of it while they look to see if they can find the true owner.

Depending on your jurisdiction, after a certain number of days elapses, if no one has filed a claim to the property, ownership of the found property will generally revert to the finder. Again, though, this varies by jurisdiction, and by the value of the found property, and by the type of property. Sometimes the jurisdiction might lay claim to it. Sometimes the owner of the establishment may get preferential treatment for title of the item.

But, in general, for money found in a public area of a business like a casino, if they cannot determine who the rightful owner is, after a given number of days the title for the lost item reverts to the finder.

Finally, you may not trust the casino to do the above. Obviously, I have no way to judge that. But my personal belief is that most casinos, being subject to strict licensing and auditing controls in many areas of operation and financial management, would likely have a process in place to adequately and legally proceed with claims like this in the proper manner.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:31 PM   #19
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Re: Chip on the floor

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^^ chip goes in my pocket all day. lol at trusting other humans with it
And maybe they catch you on camera so you can find out first hand if they just 86 you or press charges. That's a good thing to know.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:21 AM   #20
MikeStarr
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Re: Chip on the floor

True story from about a week ago:

My friend racks up to leave and as he stands up he see a green chip on the floor near him. Hes not sure if he dropped it or not. He tells the floor who has security check the cameras. Security says they cant tell how the chip got on the floor or who dropped it. Casino keeps the chip. My friend may or may not be out $25 for being honest.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:55 AM   #21
psujohn
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Re: Chip on the floor

The question is how do you possibly determine the rightful owner of a chip when there are no cameras. A casino chip has to be about the least distinguishable form of "money" with significant value. Even bills have serial numbers and dates that someone might possibly know.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:12 AM   #22
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
The question is how do you possibly determine the rightful owner of a chip when there are no cameras. A casino chip has to be about the least distinguishable form of "money" with significant value. Even bills have serial numbers and dates that someone might possibly know.
The answer is the same as you would determine the rightful owner of just about anything you find anywhere...... if you find something near where someone else lost something that meets the same description it probably is the item they lost.

Suppose you are walking down the street and you find a briefcase full of cash. There are no cameras. Some guy lost a briefcase of teh same description with the same amount of cash in it ...... and was in that same area. Do you really think the absence of cameras makes it impossible for you to know that it belongs to him?
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:50 AM   #23
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by BoDiddleyMacau View Post
Turn it in. If it's in a poker room or casino floor, there are cameras that can see it. In my room, $100 is the magic number where we will do our best to find the owner. Surveillance is very good at spotting who walked by the area while removing things from their pocket, or who walked by with an open rack that the chip fell from.
My casino has the same policy. Anything under $100 goes to lost and found with detailed description of where it was found. If someone comes to claim it and can articulate where they lost it, they get it back. Over $100 and surveillance does their best to track down the person who dropped it. After 90 days, whoever turned it in gets to keep it.

Just last week I got $101 bonus from chips I turned in that I had forgotten about.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:24 AM   #24
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Re: Chip on the floor

1) Why 'test' the camera's vision
2) Why pull the dealer into possession of 'theft' property (not really)
3) Why 'test' a system that can only bring negative results to you

Read the story about a dropped chip in the Horseshoe Hammond thread recently. A reg v reg situation that happened at the table and will re-enforce the idea that you really need to know your BR when you arrive at the casino.

Heard of a custodian that swept up a black chip into his dust pan and then was fired because he didn't turn it in the 'right' way. Not sure if it was reported missing or not in that story.

I believe cabbies in Vegas (maybe everywhere) can be charged with a crime if they don't handle 'property' of their riders in the proper manner if they leave it behind.

Should the guy who vacuums your car at the car wash try to track down the rightful owners of all the change in the filter at day's end?

I think everyone has a threshold $$ amount for how far they are willing to take it once they evaluate the spot. GL
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:43 PM   #25
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Re: Chip on the floor

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
Suppose you are walking down the street and you find a briefcase full of cash. There are no cameras. Some guy lost a briefcase of teh same description with the same amount of cash in it ...... and was in that same area. Do you really think the absence of cameras makes it impossible for you to know that it belongs to him?
Apples and oranges. The guy who lost it can describe the briefcase and the amount of money in the briefcase. Maybe even an approximate location.

Stuff left in a cab came from a trip that started at A at time X and ended at B at time Y. Or at least one of a small number of such trips.
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