Saw a scenario at a table I was at tonight. Player a bets $75 on the river player b goes all in and adds extra chips from his pocket into his stack during the call.

All the players at the table flip out, player a flips out, dealer says he missed it but calls floor.

Floor gets called over and table is held up for almost half an hour. They "check cameras" and say that it was only two red chips and not two green chips that everyone at the table is saying were added.


Floor rules that player A's bet stands and they take the two red chips out.
Should player a's bet stand? What is the procedure here usually? How scummy is this on a scale of 1-10?

Table was pretty upset afterward and player a just took off. Oh, and it was boat over boat too lol.

Sounds like a newbie player not knowing you can't do that.

Of course player A's bet stands. Why wouldn't player A's bet stand?

Not that it matters, but how much was player B's all-in?

Or are you saying that player A did not have $75 and he was the one who added the chips? You said B added what turns out to be 2 red chips.

You say B took chips out during the call. So B is all-in. But, one does not normally say he "goes" all-in. Going all-in infers a bet/raise rather than a call. So I'm assuming A covers (has more chips) than B.

A covers B and had forced him to call all in. B chips up from his pocket to the table to get more out of A. I guess, "going north" at the last minute.

Player Bs call should have been ~$30 but went to $80 when he chipped up. He was covered by A and his 2 green chips were not on the table before the hand started. At first he said he didn't add any, the he said he only added $10.

I suspect this isn't the first time that player had been doing that either because when he would play big bets on the river he would leave his little chips behind (1s and 2s) to possibly stick more on after another player would bring him all in. Why only leave $5 of chips behind? Seems scummy to me.

I ask why the bet stands "sarcastically" because why can a player add chips to the table during action? Everyone knows you can add chips to your stack after the hand is done as long as it doesn't bring you over max, people still do this too however. But, If a player can add chips to the table at any point during the hand to their stack during betting streets, why not remove them too?

What's the difference between player A pulling out $50 from his stack and saying I'm only all in for what you had on the table, or just pulling his stack back entirely and saying never mind? Lol chips have to be visible.

You're still not making sense.

The cameras showed B added $10. Now you are saying it's $50.

Player A bet $75.

How much did B go allin for in reality?

If it's more than $75 or less, A can't take his bet back.

What are you suggesting?

Reread. Player B called $30 if that's his stack. What are you saying. That because B tried to add chips that A can take his bet back?

Or are you not really asking a question? And just posting a weird situation?

B only had ~$30-40 in his stack at the time from what I saw, one green, maybe two reds and some small chips 2 or 3 of some 1 and 2's.

He added $50 into his stack during the call, me and 2 other players attested to it.

This is 1-2nl btw don't know if that changes anything.

You are saying B actually started with $30. Added $50. Floor took $10 off to make $70 in his stack.

You are asking if player A's bet of $75 has to stand because he thought B only had $30.

Why would A bet $75 then.

I'm going with the cameras. And the floor ruled.

Regardless A can never change his bet.

Stakes don't matter fwiw.

Ok, so this is a hypothetical. Instead of just pushing out $75 if player A had said "all in" and player B (30 effective) then added enough to cover player A, player B would then felt player A?

If that happened and he got away with it in that the floor ruled he didn't add chips, then yes A busts out.

Ok thanks, so basically only ever bet what your opponent has left in their stack or watch their hands like a hawk.

I wouldn't want to get stuck in that scenario.

Not sure what the question here is. Obviously player B is not allowed to add chips during a hand. Did anyone disagree with this? Sounds like only question is how much player B pulled out of his pocket. You say two greens and floor says two reds. Don't know how we can have any view on that.

I'd also say player B should be warned and, if this has happened before, probably booted.

3 people chimed in at first and then eventually the whole table was upset and ok with the game being held up for floor to investigate.

I'm sure this wasn't the first time this player did it, at first he said he didn't do it, then he said he did but only for $10. Then said, oh I'm sorry it doesn't matter if it's $10 or $200 it's still not right. Didn't really try to make amends or anything with the other player and the other player just left after floor made the ruling.

Some newbie players don't understand table stakes, and think you can (or even have to) go into your pocket to add more to your stack at any time. It is rare, but not unheard of, but usually they are not sneaky about it and get caught and told how the game is played soon after starting their first session. I have no idea what the deal is with this player. At a minimum, he needs to be warned about this behavior, and have it noted for the future. If he ever tries a stunt like this again, he should be permanently 86ed.

People also sometimes leaves a few dollars behind on their almost-all-in bets because then if they get raised or bet into later, they can call, and therefore don't have to show first. It is stupid, but people do it.

I understand you believe he added on $50, but the casino went to the cameras and said it was $10. I'm not sure how you expect us to judge who is right here, other than to say the cameras are probably correct and you are probably wrong. If there were some way for us to say definitively who was right, then... that person is right, and they should take that amount off the guy's call and put it back into his pocket.

Whether or not you decide this guy is cheating, yes his call obviously counts, with the corrected amount.

The fact that he took off afterwards is illuminating, but not definitive. If he was an honest guy who just didn't understand the rules, he may have felt humiliated by the experience and just wanted to get out of dodge. Some people, especially new players, will react this way to the situation.

The fact that he originally said he didn't take chips out of his pocket is more illuminating. There's not a lot of reasons to explain that, other than they he was purposefully doing it and trying not to get caught. I suppose it might be possible he just didn't understand what he was being accused of at first, it's hard to say without being there. If I thought he was lying and was knowingly cheating, I would 86 him immediately after the hand, probably permanently.

But it's worth noting that the hand plays out first, and he gets to keep the corrected winnings if he in fact has the best hand. (Because he was cheating in his bet amounts. If he were cheating by having an ace up his sleeve or something like that, then he does not get to win the hand. In some jurisdictions he may also be facing the cops.)

Beginners see crap poker moves in movies and think they are OK. In these BS poker scenes People go in their pockets all the time to raise like in the last hand of Cinn Kid. This might be what this is. Maybe it's something else less innocent IDK. At any rate , either he learned a lesson about real poker table stakes or he was caught going north and corrected.

I have seen cases where players did obvious infraction of the rules (string bets, crossing the line with additional chips), but then denied it vehemently afterwards. Often, they do these things unknowingly, the conscious part of their brain is so wrapped up in the game, that the part of the brain handling the chips is on autopilot. It is entirely possible that he grabbed more chips and wasn't conscious of doing it.

OP you did everything you can do, surveillance came back with two red chips, so no matter how much anyone protests they're not going to change the ruling.

I remember about a year ago after a guy went all in against me I was 100% sure he had one or two black chips in his stack which he removed. I went to the floor who called the camera and they later came back with "no chips left the table". Nothing I could do either.

Alternatively, never leave the house.

Strange. Not much you could have done, floor was called, cameras were checked.

I'm more careful these days about checking V stack sizes, both as the game plays and particularly when all-ins come into play. It's unusual, but not unheard of for a shady player to shuffle big chips.

It's not allowed to manipulate your chip stack significantly mid-hand. I don't think anyone is shocked when a $1 chip gets tipped for a drink, but eyebrows get raised when half the stack goes to the massage girl.

I don't think all newbies are shooting angles when they go South, or North. Even after many years of playing home games, I didn't understand the implications.

History or not, the stack size should be corrected and the pot settled. After that, warnings, being sent home, or banned are on the table.