Fishy new player walks up to the podium and asks what games they have. Wynn employee says 1/3NL, and player asks what the buyin is. Wynn says "$100 minimum and no maximum." Fish becomes intimidated, even if nobody at the table is sitting more than $300 deep. If one fish swims away because of this it's one fish too many. Perception is often more important than reality.

Did Binions and Nugget uncapped games suffer? I found them to be exactly like everything else.

a game I've been playing at for some time recently has grown to a "deeper" stacked game due to the infusion of some deep pocket players. although the blinds have not changed, alot of the "casual" min buy-in players stopped playing because they are having to pay a much larger % of their stack to see flops because the opening raises are that much bigger.

Some of these "flop junkies" have drifted back but they're not having as much fun as before.

"it's ridiculous!" means nothing. it's different. and it was the only reason i went to the wynn card room. my patronage doesnt mean a lot to them in itself, but I'm not the only one.

The argument is that the number of people looking to play deep stack poker below 5/10 is larger than the number of people who are going to refuse to play because one or two guys at the tables has a half inch thick stack of bills tucked beside his stack.


also keep in mind that the number of old men that whine about big stacks becaues they have a genuine (unjustified) concern is significantly lower than the number of old men who whine about big stacks because they whine about everything under the sun.


It's a lot more relevant in areas that dont have healthy competition like vegas. A 100bb stack is much better for business as an industry standard.

But when there are dozens of indistinguishable services being offered within a 2 minute walk, it might be the case that the niche market is larger than the excess demand in the mainstream market.


I agree with this sentiment.

The majority of people who are buying in for 1kbb are not focussed on sticking as much money in the middle as possible as fast as possible.

If they wanted to gamble, they would move up in stakes.


Effective stacks are just as important to these people as it is everyone else, and if anything, they are more likely to realize this. They arent going to "bully" a short stack with 100bb in a different way with 1kbbs than they would with 200bbs. The only difference is that when you have two people with monster stacks in a hand together, you might see more 3 and 4 bet pots. But in my experience, those situations are few and far between. Most of them are 'grinders' who arent looking to make plays at other competent players. Theyre waiting for the spew monkey to come in, not recognize stack sizes, and get in way too deep in spots that they shouldnt be.

speak to any floor man in Vegas and they would tell you that your argument doesn't hold water. The number of peole looking to play deep, even in the 5/10 game, is smaller than the number of people who specifically asked whats "whats the buyin" then buy in for the minimum.

The only game in a poker room that should ever be uncapped is the highest game. Anyone who says otherwise is just a loser who gets a hard-on from sitting 3K deep at a 1-2 game.

... not really sure you understand what the point is.

Wanting to buy in for the min doesnt equate to leaving because there's a high cap.

The number of people who actually avoid the card room and play in others because there are people sitting deep is likely very small.




How do you feel about a 50bb cap on all tables below 50/100nl?

If you care, you're a loser who gets a hard on from sitting with a lot of money at a 1/2 game.

Wynn has started having the last 2/5 game be a must move for the first hour. I really like that they will take the effort of keeping and monitoring a list to keep the players happier.

In addition to that, they have replaced all their layouts and carpet making it feel like a new room again.

I personally liked the $3 chip and thought it made the game substantially different from 2/5 but they felt that there were players staying away from the 1/3 game because of it.

In addition they have capped the 1/3 and 2/5 games at 500 and 1500 respectively. The high caps allow you to protect yourself from established stacks without having to mortgage your house.

I thought they offered a unique product and was happy to play there. They have bent over backwards to the vocal majority in an effort to attract more players. I hope this brings players back. The Wynn is a great all-around poker venue.

tell that to the Wynn, who despite giving away tons of comps watched their tourist and local traffic dissipate over time primarily because the customers are afraid of uncapped games. The do not understand that the short stack has an inherent advantage, nor do they care... they are looking for the maximum return in their poker fun.

I like the 300BB cap, if your going to have a cap that is. I never had a problem with the no cap but I do have problems with the low buy-ins, when they let someone buy in for 12BB, then they push as soon as they sit, then run to the next table if they win.

As for the intimidating factor, I agree that the no cap can be intimidating to a player that is just looking for fun. One night at the Wynn I sat down with $1000 at a 2-5 game, the next guy to come in sits with like $7000, right to my left, the next guy sits with a rack with about $60000. in it, I had to ask him what the bumble bee chips where, they are $5000, he just hit it big on roulette, shocking he was tight. But is was a bit of a shock at first, made me change my game for a while.

Was it really a vocal majority? Or just a handful of whiners that made a lot of noise?

As for their business "dissipating", the last time I played there in September, the 1/3 was just as busy as the Venetian or the Orleans. Are we supposed to believe that their uncapped games were just fine for the last few years since they opened, but suddenly the lack of a cap has chased everyone away in the last two months? It sure seems like the Wynn has confused the drop-off of poker business in general with the drop-off in their business, because I don't know where all those people went. Certainly not to any poker room in Vegas that I've visited recently.

Sorry, I have to nitpick, the bumblebees are $1k. The red, white and blue chips are $5k.

Having played a lot in the Wynn poker room, with most of my NLHE play at 1-3 or 2-5 i do think this could be a good thing with the cap. However I wish they had kept the $3 chips. I understand they created some confusion, but imo they did just as much to create action. First the pots looked "bigger" with more chips in them. Also when many bets were made and referred to as 10 chips it helped the fish not think of the monetary value and just think of it as ten of these chips in front of me. Also I think a reason the uncapped game drove away players is b/c many players have limited experience playing with 200BB effective stacks. Say they only buy in for 100BB but quickly double up, now they may be playing out of their element, not feel comfortable, and want to leave.

This. Although I think a cap on the 5-10 wouldn't be bad either as it would encourge the local high stakes players to regularly start a $10-20 game. As it is, people sit in the 5-10 ultra deep ($10k+) and just become too comfortable with the stakes to ever want to raise them. I remember numerous times when the game was really good with a couple big time "live ones" in town gambling it up deep, we agree to raise the stakes and start a 10-20, but now the fish aren't gambling because they are uncomfortable with the new color chips and higher blinds etc. Even worse, the game may be short and some people end up leaving because of all this going on, and now we lose the action of these gamblers altogether.

And for all those who ask and wonder why the Bellagio gets all the 10-20 action when the Wynn doesn't, well this is why. Since opening day, the Bellagio has always maintained a cap on their 5-10 game in order to preserve the action and longevity of their higher stakes NL games.

"Certainly not to any poker room in Vegas that I've visited recently."


Hi Bill,

FWIW, when I was at the Orleans last night, 35 tables were going. Granted, this was at night & not during the day (when some posters visit poker rooms) but I keep reading posts (by 2+2ers) saying how dead Vegas is everywhere and I don't always see it.


Best Wishes

Hojo

OMG this is the most important point of this entire thread...what will the Wynn poker room be without regular visits from The Duke of Fremont Street??????

It was a while ago, as you can see I do not play with them.

And yes you are a nitpicker, but that is better then the nose picker that was sitting next to me the other night.

Every place has tables going the past week because of the rodeo. TI had 2 1/3 tables going for crying out loud. When I was at the O (see if this catches on like B and V), 2 weeks ago, it was just as thin as any other room.

one of the ways and a very important one for players,and not the house to make money is to have some big wins fairly regularly. in tightly capped games its much tougher and much more of the money lost goes to the house. also it is much harder for a big fish to lose a really lot in one night. this hurts all the players. and maybe alot more than the ones with little money that are afraid to lose it.

an awful amount of your winnings come from the big dumpers as they are the ones with little chance of leaving winner. much less comes from the bad players losing one or two smaller buyins. this assumes stakes higher than that which common working people are playing.

i've never played limit but i recall discussion of structures with odd numbers of chips for the sb, like $9/$18, concluding that this created more action

there is a lot of value in obscuring the money involved - valuebetting fish in a 5/10 game is better done with a few blacks rather than towers of orange

of course, you can switch this up when bluffing against the unobservant

has the 15/30 started going again since I busted everyone?

i have to admit, i was reluctant to play much at the wynn my last trip to vegas for this reason (other than the longer walk than the venitian). also i feel the games are somewhat tighter because of deeper stacks, another reason to find another game - but i never did sit with someone with a zillion BBs opening for 1 buyin with 7$ in the pot. i might change my mind if i had, even for a short time.

If the Wynn wants to restore its image then they should create more space in between the tables.

I've been staying at Wynn going on 2 weeks and have only been able to play upstairs 2-3 times..kind of sad...hopefully encore opening on 22nd and new years will give it a much needed boost

Primogenito is this the player who goes by PRIMO on the list?????