I'm in the 9 seat, other guy in the 3.

River comes....check to me. I bet. Other guy calls.

I swing my hand to table my cards and one falls off the table. I pick it up and put it on the table.

Dealer pushes me the pot and moments later, whispers to me that it should have been dead. 8 seat whispers the same to me.

What's your take?

A good floor would rule your hand is live and remind you to be more careful.

1: Floor Decisions
Floorpeople must consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priorities in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floorperson's decision is final.

I would not kill it, but I would count the deck after. I dunno what "swing my hand" means, but if you're doing anything other than just turning your cards over, let this be a lesson to you to stop doing it, as weird stuff can happen, and in the future your hand might be ruled dead if the card leaves the field of vision of the dealer.

I just got really excited bc I called loosely and hit a big hand, so when I went to table my cards, I scooped them forward towards me and one bounced on the vinyl and fell to the floor.

Depends on the rules of the room. Some places would kill your hand others wouldn't. At our casino if a hand hits the floor at showdown it is still considered live. If it hits the floor at any other point it's dead.

Dead hand the times I’ve seen this happen.

Evidently it’s room dependent as are many rules.

In the rooms I've dealt the hand is live. Card is double checked to make sure the back matches the deck in use and the deck is counted after the hand.

If someone wanted to switch out a card they could easily do it with a less risky and obvious method.

Card on the floor is a dead hand.

The dealer admitted to not doing their job. I would be uncomfortable if I were receiving favorable treatment that other players don't get, and if it wasn't special treatment, then this would mean that I have to be more vigilant with this particular dealer at the table because they could easily ignore the rules in favor of another player.

As a player, though, if you saw it happen, would you have asked to have the hand killed?

If I was in the hand, if the card went out of my sight, I would have asked for a floor ruling, and would have asked for no specific outcome. If i could clearly see the card the whole time(for example, if I was sitting next to the player), I would not bother with the floor ruling.

I guess I do have some belief in karma ... You let the cards speak and don't try to kill a winning hand for your own benefit. We are at Showdown. I'm not sure I would even press the issue during the hand if it was recovered 'quickly', and even then it would be a stretch IMO.

Now if some other Player speaks up or the Dealer, then I let it play out ... maybe even offering to chop or forfeit the pot if the Floor will allow it. Making things right off the table could be considered as well since you shouldn't take chips off your stack even if you won them on a technicality. GL

Apparently in the room you were in, the rule is the hand is dead. The dealer probably decided to let it slide because nobody said anything, it was fairly obvious that you didn't switch cards and he wanted to game to keep moving. However, he is letting you know that if this keeps happening "accidently" he will definitely kill your hand.

TBH if I was in this room and the villain, I would have freerolled you. I'd let you show your hand. If you lost, I'd say nothing. If you "won," I'd ask for the rule to be enforced.

That's poker.

Normally the hand is dead. But floor should be called regardless.

I've seen some huge pots get pushed to the losing hand after the winner drops a card on the floor. Once when he slammed his cards down in excitement and one bounced off, and another one (in another room) that bounced off after being tabled properly but he tried to throw them in the middle and one bounced off. There weren't any warnings, just "sorry the rule states this is a dead hand". The guy in the first incident had to be escorted out by security.

Once a hand is tabled properly, it shouldn't matter if one card bounces off at a later time. That's a bad ruling in my opinion.

Agreed. It seems to miss the point entirely.

Same to all this.

I definitely have to call the floor if a card goes out of my sight. Then it would be ruled dead, or live, depending on which supervisor showed up.

This.

Especially with the new DeckMate 2 shufflers that are growing is usage, there's no risk here. We're at showdown, push the pot to the best hand.

I would ask what the rule is when a card hits the floor (even if I know what the rule is). It's up to the dealer or floor to kill the hand.

In one room where I often play, the floor has to be called over any time a card goes off the table, so the scenario you described wouldn't happen there.

If I have played with you and think you are a dick or an angle-shooter, I would probably be more insistent about it. If you are a bad player, I might let it slide to keep you happy, but let you know that I was being nice by not insisting that the rules be enforced.

You don't want dealer discretion determining if a hand should be killed or not.

I want them to enforce the rules without me telling them how to do their job. I'm going to let them know if I think they are doing a bad job, but I am going to give them a chance to do their job first. I'm not going to try and control the table with an iron fist.

My take is that the hand should be live.
I actually saw this happen two days ago in a PLO game. The player next to me went to table his cards, perhaps a bit too enthusiastically. They caught on the rail as he picked them up, went everywhere, and at least two of them hit the floor. He retrieved them and won the pot, to some laughter and ribbing. Although it was a >$1000 pot, and multiway, no one (dealer or players) suggested killing his hand. (The dealer did check to see that the returned cards were from the correct deck.)

FWIW, a card falling on the floor is covered in RRoP, and is live:

"IRREGULARITIES....
14. If you drop a card on the floor out of your hand, you must still play that card."....
Also, a card on the floor is NOT mentioned in the previous RRoP section, "Dead Hands".
However, there is a widespread belief, and it is the rule in many places, that it does kill the hand. So, could go either way.
This idea of killing the card or the hand does go back a long way, despite RRoP. To see how this was, if you have the time, you might want to check out the opening scene of "California Split" (an old Robert Altman movie set in the California card rooms of the 1970's), which involves a card leaving the table. Hilarious, and worth seeing in its own right.

No mention of cards off the table in TDA2017 that I can find.

Robert's does state that if you drop your cards off the table you must continue to play them as noted above.

Robert's does also mention a Player's 'behavior' of throwing cards off the table may be dealt with by a penalty, but no mention of affecting the ongoing hand.

Certainly this is a house rule when it comes to BBJs (no payout), but I may be misled that it affects live hands as well. GL

I always try to get my opponents hand killed. +ev every time.