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will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? will you show if I fold?  - what to do>?

04-04-2022 , 06:51 PM
In general there are two different situations why people ask that question.

The first is that they are going to fold no matter what but would like to see your hand. It doesn't matter what you answer here they are going to fold.

The second is what has been mentioned before. They are asking to see your response. There are several things they might be looking for. The first is of course if you say "yes". As mentioned before this will typically mean weakness in like an 80/20 way (80% of the time weakness, 20% of the time strength). Saying "no" signifies strength (posing as weakness) but is much more conclusive and rare than 80/20.

The other problem with answering a question like that in this spot is that your voice can give away the strength of your hand. Similarly what you choose to talk about and how you go about it. Against a pro I would virtually always say nothing. I used to say "I don't answer that question in the middle of a hand." But based on the reactions I got, I suspected that the tone of my voice was giving something away. So now I just don't say anything.

In this particular example though once Villain calls the raise to $225 with $385 behind she is going to call virtually all of the time when you shove the turn because your raise is over 33% effective stack on the flop indicating that you will likely be shoving the turn. This is especially true because she was a pro. The reason she doesn't call immediately is because one of the two main straight draws (65) just got there in addition to the likelihood that you may have a set.

Personally I see this as a desperate situation and I would be very tempted to say "No". But if I did say it I would say it definitively and aggressively not passively or quietly. Similarly I would be tempted to issue a micro smile for less than half a second. Like a twitch. As if to say subconsciously you like the question and feel confident about your hand and/or you have the nuts or are glad Villain doesn't have the nuts.

All bets are off if you are a pro as well and Villain knows it. Then its just a leveling game.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-07-2022 , 07:41 PM
Slightly off topic, but...

She showed her hand to another player when deciding whether or not to call? And she is a pro (or at least a reg)?

She should be warned not to show her card to other players, especially when she is making a big decision. If she has already been warned (ever), she should be sent home for the day. Further violations should result in stricter penalties, up to banning her from the room.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-07-2022 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Slightly off topic, but...

She showed her hand to another player when deciding whether or not to call? And she is a pro (or at least a reg)?

She should be warned not to show her card to other players, especially when she is making a big decision. If she has already been warned (ever), she should be sent home for the day. Further violations should result in stricter penalties, up to banning her from the room.
Even if it’s heads-up? I see this done all the time. Didn’t know it was against the rules
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-07-2022 , 08:58 PM
people are asking to gain information so they can beat you, don't give them any
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-09-2022 , 05:50 PM
"Shoot, I might not show if you call."
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-10-2022 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoney
Even if it’s heads-up? I see this done all the time. Didn’t know it was against the rules
Why would it matter if it's heads up?

I do see it sometimes myself, but I always hate it. What is the purpose, other than getting the other player's advice about the hand? It could be even very subtle "advice", like the look the friend gives after seeing the hand. And then what if the person watching does say something explicit about the hand? You're ruining the entire fairness of the hand. One player to a hand is a rule at all casinos, should be enforced more than it is, and there is simply no excuse for a "pro" who should know the most basic rules of poker very well, doing this.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-10-2022 , 02:50 AM
LOL now I'm remembering playing vs. some clown who got angry that I wouldn't answer this question, like it's bad etiquette to ignore someone fishing for a reaction.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-10-2022 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Why would it matter if it's heads up?

I do see it sometimes myself, but I always hate it. What is the purpose, other than getting the other player's advice about the hand? It could be even very subtle "advice", like the look the friend gives after seeing the hand. And then what if the person watching does say something explicit about the hand? You're ruining the entire fairness of the hand. One player to a hand is a rule at all casinos, should be enforced more than it is, and there is simply no excuse for a "pro" who should know the most basic rules of poker very well, doing this.
We all know plenty of “pros” who should know better about many rules but abuse them anyway. They either think those rules should not apply to them or even more often think they know how to dance in the gray when they have blown past the gray and well beyond the rules.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-10-2022 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore
We all know plenty of “pros” who should know better about many rules but abuse them anyway. They either think those rules should not apply to them or even more often think they know how to dance in the gray when they have blown past the gray and well beyond the rules.
Yeah, that's why such rules should be enforced more strongly against them. I novice might not know it is against the rules to fish for advice from other players, but a regular definitely will. Unless they only ever play in one room and the rule is never enforced there.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-11-2022 , 09:50 AM
Certainly a gray area with Regs .. These are offenses that typically get a warning the first time around. Problem is that a Reg may have gotten a warning last week, but they consider each session as a 'fresh start' since that's what applies to Recs. We had a couple of Regs that would push the envelope on stuff and I've seen Dealers sit down and immediately tell them that a warning from a previous session is still in play. It's hard to apply 'more' enforcement, but then again if they are a repeat offender then you should go into the marginal situations leaning towards stricter enforcement.

It's harder to police in larger rooms since Players see a full roster of Dealers coming through. Most of our local rooms only have 4-10 Dealers and they know what's been going on. So in bigger rooms Floors/management need to inform the Dealers of the tone they want to set and enforce accordingly. Then you get into the variance in Dealers who may or may not go off the reservation on their own. We have one casino in our area where a VERY high percentage of the Dealers are strict with rules and you really can't go more than a few downs without hearing a Floor call. (Typically 6-12, up to 20 tables running)

A room really needs to try and do what it can to keep things consistent since it's almost a certainty that the stricter Dealers tips will suffer in a loosely run room. GL
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-12-2022 , 11:52 AM
this "will you show if i fold" happened last night on Hustler Live
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-12-2022 , 01:13 PM
the thing about having any response here is that others not even in the hand can pick up on your response and mentally note "said x and held the bluff, said y and had the nuts" so you'd be forced to balance your responses, in which case you're better off just not talking because as others have noticed, they are either time wasters or are looking at other things like perhaps the tone of your voice etc etc
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-12-2022 , 02:32 PM
yeah I'm in the don't say a word camp
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-14-2022 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Slightly off topic, but...

She showed her hand to another player when deciding whether or not to call? And she is a pro (or at least a reg)?

She should be warned not to show her card to other players, especially when she is making a big decision. If she has already been warned (ever), she should be sent home for the day. Further violations should result in stricter penalties, up to banning her from the room.
once again this exact same thing happened on Hustler live last night. its soooo common for this to happen, and I've NEVER seen a warning given out
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-14-2022 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoney
once again this exact same thing happened on Hustler live last night. its soooo common for this to happen, and I've NEVER seen a warning given out
Have you called it out, complained about it, or called the floor?
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
04-15-2022 , 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
Have you called it out, complained about it, or called the floor?
No I’m not a miserable reg that complains about dumb rules
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
06-07-2022 , 06:16 PM
It's hard to explain but most of the time, if you say you'll show if they fold, they get the impression you would be happy with a fold because you're willing to appease them, and they tank call.

One time I actually responded "I'd do anything for you to fold right now," got the fold, and showed the bluff.

If you're not good at banter, just smile and shrug.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
06-08-2022 , 10:59 PM
I will always answer them but usually say something like, "I'm sorry but I never show unless I have quads or better."
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
06-09-2022 , 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
the thing about having any response here is that others not even in the hand can pick up on your response and mentally note "said x and held the bluff, said y and had the nuts" so you'd be forced to balance your responses, in which case you're better off just not talking because as others have noticed, they are either time wasters or are looking at other things like perhaps the tone of your voice etc etc
Or you could just always say no, regardless of your hand strength. That eliminates the need for any kind of GTO-type balancing, and is just as unexploitable.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote
06-11-2022 , 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoney
TLDR

what does "if you show me if i fold" mean...what are villains trying to get out of it? What should my response be? what does me sitting doing nothing mean...

is this villain dependent or is there a trend to table talk? I hate it and ALWAYS feel ill make the worng decision....so i just stay silent...most of the time lol

thanks
1st of all, not to get into strategy, but bluffing someone who is essentially tilting is a terrible idea. Tilting means they are more likely to call.

Secondly, whenever someone asks me if I will show if they fold is always the same: I will show if you show what you are folding. I want to get info for giving info. I want to see how strong of a hand they were folding.

I have found that more often than not when I say that, they just fold without showing.
will you show if I fold?  - what to do>? Quote

      
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