Playing live PLO at a casino and just my 2nd orbit into the session.

UTG folds (player x)
UTG 1 Me pots
MP Calls (player y)
MP1 Calls
CT folds
BTN Calls
BB Repots
Straddle folds
I repot and am All in

This is where the situation arises
I slide all my chips in and before MP (player y) makes a decision. Player x tells the dealer to to take in the original pot bet from everyone and let player y know how much more it would be subtracting the first pot bet from my all in amount. Player y does cover me

From my perspective:
I'm thinking first of all player x you’re not even involved the hand.
It should be up to the next player if they want a count and why are you specifically asking him to take out the initial pot bet call and subtract that from my all in amount.

context of player x has been telling the neighbor next to him about his hand how he would’ve made a straight on the river flush on the turn etc.. in prior hands while players are still playing out the hand.

Dynamic of player x and y is they are friends
Ive played with both these players before but never had any real issues like this arise with either of them.
In the back of my mind I'm wondering is this somehow collusion/signaling that they working together.

Eventually player y folds, and only BB calls for less.
Runout happens

After the hand I callout player x for what he was doing.


Whose out of line?
Is this an angle/collusion?
Am I being too paranoid/sensitive and overthinking this?
How would you handle the situation?

Only the player with action on them can ask to pull in the call amount. Some dealers will do it anyway to speed things up.

He probably wasn't doing it to favor his friend or influence action. That type of thing is usually a combination of trying to be helpful, trying to speed things up, and releasing nervous energy. PLO is notorious for having lots of motormouths at the table who dismiss any suggestion that there are things they shouldn't say during a hand.

It PROBABLY didn't affect the action, but your frustration is understandable.

Player X is out of line, and the dealer should be shutting it down. It shouldn't be on you to worry about. This is an uninvolved player giving a procedural demand to a dealer. It is not stated whether the dealer complied, but that would be even more alarming than leaving the demand unanswered.

There might be collusion between these two players, but this should not be an opportunity for them to engage in it.

Thank you for the response can you clarify a bit more on the last part of it PROBABLY didn't affect the action

Thanks for the response the dealer did slide in the initial pot bet amount from every player that did call into the middle and the BB had his repot-my initial pot bet left out before player Y made my decision. I’ll edit that part in to my post.

Looking back on it I think that’s what got me too why is that demand of player x being followed through by the dealer when player x is not involved in the hand.

You are 100% correct.

The rule in our room is dealers can only pull in bets if the player the action is on requests it. Player X would have been told he can't request that and not to comment on a hand in progress. But part of the problem is that apparently he had been commenting on hands in progress earlier and no player or dealer objected. So he may not have believed he was doing anything wrong.

Pulling in bets can definitely affect action. Sometimes players dont mentally visualize the ratio of the bet to the pot size correctly. But when they can see the chips it changes their perception. Depending on the amounts, this may or may not have changed the decision. But it certainly has the potential to, which is why other players should not ask for it. But often players not in the hand think its ok for them to say things the player could say themselves. Eg, if a player asks another player how much he has left, 3 players will jump in with the answer even though the player in the hand can choose not to answer.

Speculation abounds .. Has your experience with these two been at the PLO table? If so, then it's really fishy that Player X would interject here, but it could also just be a table captain stepping in to 'protect' the Dealer and/or his friend from a large decision.

Player X should have no influence over the Dealer at this point in time especially since MP1 is also left to act on both B and OP's action. There should be no rush to make the main pot 'right' currently since OP is the only one all-in. Player X can interject if they feel a bet amount is stated or pulled incorrectly, but OP gives no indication that the Dealer didn't announce B's pot bet and OP's stack size was not requested that we know of either.

Player X is out of line and I have no objection to you saying something during or after the hand. During the hand you may give off an impression one way or the other by how you interact with Player X. After the hand you should step in if the Dealer failed to do so .. and even get the Floor involved if you feel it fell on deaf ears. At a minimum you are helping the Dealer 'do better' next time.

The only way you can get out of line here is by how you handle the spot. Just let him know he could be affecting your action and allow the Player who is acting to make the requests going forward. Personally I probably would've said something during the hand, but not 100%. One of my top no-nos for Dealers is pulling bets into the middle without 'cause'. Pulling in chips if 'free' visual pot odds math that can influence a Player, and more than likely more calls are made from this than folds IMO.

As friends, it's very possible that Player Y is less versed in PLO and Player X wanted to force this issue of 'pot odds' for Player Y to see. Maybe they have a shared bankroll? More than likely just a spot that X knew Y may struggle with.

Never be afraid to protect your interest in a pot .. or the long term 'regulation' of the game. GL

I mean there's a good chance he was going to fold anyway. If anything, pulling in the bets would make it seem more attractive to call because he now has fewer chips in front of him and there is a pot sitting there.

This is not collusion at all. It sounds like the usual bossy know-it-all guy who has taken it upon himself to run the table even though the casino has hired staff for that exact purpose. Depending on the rules of the casino I might quietly let the dealer know he's not supposed to pull the bets in unless the player is involved in the hand. But I wouldn't bother calling the guy out because I don't care that the bets were pulled in and these assclowns refuse to ever accept that they are wrong and love to argue loudly and endlessly, so I'm not making a thing of it unless it's really causing problems as opposed to what I consider to be a minor breach of etiquette.

Agree with this.

Thank you for your explanation it is helpful and presented very articulately.

Thank you for the detailed response. Articulated beautifully
During the situation player x was the first to declare actions after my repot all in. None of the other players in the hand (MP MP1 BTN BB) was asking for a count prior or requesting to pull in bets.

I agree. I'd more much more inclined to say it affected the action if he had called.

What I would like for the dealer to do in that situation after player X told him to pull in the bets:
Smile at him and say/do nothing. If player X asks again, the dealer should ask him to be quiet because the action is not on him. After the hand is over he should tell player X why he can't do that.
It's certainly not a big thing but I would prefer for the dealer to say as little as possible during the hand in situations like that.

Not only was action not on Player X, he had already folded and should only speak up if he sees/hears an error taking place.

While I agree that a full explanation 'should' wait until after the hand due to possibly influencing the current hand, I also don't mind taking Player X down a notch in front of everyone. I think you have more Player attention during a hand than between hands .. but that could be 50-50 as well. GL


"Sir, action is not on you and you don't even have a hand right now to make that request."

.

Plo has some quirky spots where I'm not certain when to interject, like when dealers get the pot size wrong. Bringing in bets doesn't seem to be one , though if a player asked and the dealer did nothing I'd feel fine mentioning it (you said that didn't happen).

I'm also on team just count all in bets right away.