We're in the casinos & cardroom forum, so I was speaking specifically to that. Underground poker isn't going away any time soon.

I’m certainly not disputing that statement for your card room but don’t think it’s true in general.

In my experience, “big fish” are the only kind of recreational player who likes to play short handed because if your VPIP is 80%, it actually benefits you to have a lower number of players at the table.

Just based on personal interactions with people who can afford to lose a decent amount of money at the tables, the #1 reason for them not to play in a casino right now is simply that it would look horribly for them to get infected while gambling or just to get contact traced back there. If your clients/customers expect from you to make smart decisions, you want to avoid stuff like that right now.

So what you're saying is that degens will always find a place to play no matter how unsafe. That's a great advertisement for poker.

If people who live a life filled with making bad decisions stopped playing poker, the game would be dead.

There are two groups of players who loose significant amounts of money at poker. One group consists of mostly smart players with a lot of disposable income. The second group consists of mostly not very smart players who lose money they better had spent on something else.

If you have a problem with taking money from that second group, you’re down to invitation-only home games.

Yes, because poker has always been a prestigious game for scholarly, non-impulsive gentlemen who make proper decisions at all times. Right???

I think you assume that everyone in poker is alike. Fact is poker can be a thought provoking game played by interesting and smart men and women. The problem right now is IMO that the only people clamoring to get back to the tables at any price are the degens. Obviously they exist. But that is not the totality of the poker playing public. And it won't help the future of the game if folks think they are the only player that exist.

That game doesn’t exist in public card rooms.

Good for you if you can get yourself into a private game with doctors, lawyers and business executives who are all smart and interesting but even there the biggest losers have some kind of gamble and degen in them.

Well, let me quote my favorite line from one of my favorite movies: The Magnificent Seven 1960. "Men in this line of work are not all alike."

How is your favorite movie (book) not... White Fang?

Actually, Jack London is my favorite author. I love White Fang and Call of the Wild, but my favorite book of London's is The Sea Wolf followed closely by The Star Rover.

... uh, what?

How is me expressing that all poker players aren't a specific type that you outlined somehow me saying that all players are degens?

I have no desire to get in an online argument about who meant what, but your comment implies that you believe the vast majority of poker players aren't overly bright and make impulsive decisions. That is a degen in my book.

I don't want to get hung up on things like "the vast majority of". Fact is that without players who would better use their money for other things than poker, there wouldn't be any poker tables in casinos.

There's a large number of strategic games that smart people enjoy playing, but almost none of them happen to be played for significant amounts of real money. If poker had the image of chess, it wouldn't be played in casinos.

During a time like right now where most casual players decide it's better for them to stay home, the games probably lean significantly more towards "degens" and "players who want to take money from degens" than they usually do.

Good point, Madlex. I do wish had a better image. I have played in casinos against people you are interesting, well-read, and versed on a variety of subjects. I heard and been involved in more than a few thought provoking subjects on religion, history, and philosophy. Granted that doesn't not always happen. Sadly, I have been at many more tables where I played against people who I really didn't enjoy being around, even if they were spewing money.

You are right that now the majority of players are like those you listed. And I stand by what I said in an earlier post. That is not a good advertisement for poker or its future.