It has to be tempting to take the freeroll... Try to build a pot and then snap shove otr for 200bbs If you get called you pull your "Get out of the pot for free" card and move to a new country.

Most places have rules requiring you to speak up if you see a fouled deck.

How can they prove you knew?

Maybe they would just give the pot to the winner of the hand saying I should've noticed? what if im winning the hand.

one of four possibilities will happen:

1. You will get to freeroll - either win without showing or get your $ back
2. You will get freerolled - your money is committed and you have a dead hand
3. Voided hand - you luck out and get a floor who sucks
4. Drama with the floor while you try to explain that you didn't notice - you maybe lose your money, maybe get it back, but have to argue why you shouldn't be 86ed

Most likely outcome is #2. You maybe avoid getting 86ed, but I don't give you your money back if you put the money in with a losing hand.

Seems like a bad strategy to me.

Also, practically never happens nowadays.

most places will give all their money back as many state laws require that with a fouled deck. and most casinos wont award a pot to someone with a fouled deck.

so it usually is a free roll if you say at some point in the hand if asked why didnt you speak up and say i looked at the pair not the suits. which would be reasonable.

"DelusionalFish"

REALLY?

I would have thought most places would declare your [heros] hand [4h 4h] dead and you lose the money

To prevent ppl free rolling the situation

As if the villain folds - it's a win, or get your money back situation...

And if you say 'oh I didn't notice'

I wouldn't matter

As it's called protecting your hand

It's the same as if a dealer mucks your hand by mistake... you can't help it - but it's still your 'fault' as you 'should have protected your hand'

I would have thought this was all standard

So no - you can't free roll

As unless they muck the river, you are losing all your chips everytime*


* unless the rules have changed, or you are playing somewhere that wants to encourge scummy play

This pretty much sums it up from a rules stand point ...

4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).
5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.

As a player you certainly are risking being put on everyone's 'list' and the room could also take some action against you as well. These places may go by the 'standard' rules of poker, but they are also private locations that can determine who, and who not, to allow to play there.

I would love to be at the table where the Floor would have enough guts to rule using Rule #5 above and have 'your' 200bb sitting in the middle up for grabs. I wish the rule also included that the offending player can't reload and try to get his chips back!! GL

This ^^

The typical rule has the offending players money not returned to them but put into the next pot.

Why would anybody want to try this silly business anyway? JHC! Just inform the dealer of a fouled deck , get a new one , and play on.

This was my understanding. Ray is saying (a) state laws forbid it and (b) ignorance is an excuse, neither of which I knew to be true.

I personally would never do it, even if the ruling was 100% void hand.
Im the kind of guy who instantly makes the dealer notice i got 1 extra $ on my change, this would feel like attempted robbery.

What will happen is that karma will bite you in the ass, and two guys will show down with 4h when you are in a huge pot for the nuts. Bzzzztttt, fouled deck, no action, no monster pot.

when you table a hand that contains two of the same cards.

just stop the action and call the floor.

What would you do if you get dealt 4 4?


Turn them over face up.
Put a bet on each one.
Tell the dealer you are splitting them.

I suspect Ray Zee may be trolling

As he also states on another thread [at show down, when cards are identifiable]...

"bad ruling. the act of touching your cards to the dead pile is acknowledging a fold."

The magic muck pile

With his experience I suspect these posts have a little of the troll in them

Winnar

i think ray is right... how could you make someone leave their money in if they have the losing hand and not pay them when they have the winning hand. I think the law states the hand is voided due to a foul deck. What if it was AhAh??? even if the guy lost i doubt they don't void the hand and if he wins they definitely void it as making his hand dead in that situation will go over very poorly. Saying he had a fouled hand and he is responsible for knowing that is a little absurd when it is 100% the casinos fault but I could see a casino trying to argue that. Just don't think they're allowed to according to the law.

The right ruling is banning the player for angling though as he should have spoken up immediately when he saw them.

The law?

I think the rules are very clear

If you don't speak up - your hand is dead and you lose the money

That's very clear

And is the 'law' [unless places are badly run]

Otherwise you let people shoot this angle

If someone really doesn't realise - that's them not 'protecting their hand'

So Ray is wrong

And trolling - he can't not know this

most states say that a foul deck ends in a voided hand. period. It is a state gaming commission law that is actually in place to prevent people from cheating the casino with fouled decks I think.

If the dealer is showing a 6 then I would probably split 4h4h.

thanks first time i believe ive been called a troll.

i certainly dont know all the rules from the different cardrooms across the world although i have played across the world. and most of my feelings come from the past when the rules were made strictly to protect the players from cheating. many of those rules have been changed when tournaments were televised to help the general public from getting confused, and inexperienced players from making mistakes that are very costly to them from lack of knowledge of the rules of poker.

in all cardrooms in the past a fouled deck became a voided hand and all money put in was returned to the players. as a fouled deck meant that someone cheated in the hand or a previous one or the casino made a blunder. either state rules required it or the house ruled it so no one in theh pot was damaged. that is the way it was.
it did make for a possible freeroll but also didnt punish someone for all his chips if he looked and saw a pair and played on as many with a pair dont pay much attention to the suits preflop. me as well unless it is a high pair.

also in another post(thread) i mentioned mucked hands should be dead.
nowadays they do the retrievable thing. i dont think its right but thats the new rules in some places so fools that release their cards before the pot is pushed to them have a recourse.

+ 1,000