Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows where the lowest rake in low stakes cash games in the world is? I'm thinking of moving country and play a lot of 1/3 and 2/5. I've been thinking of moving to Vancouver/Montreal/Barcelona, but all of those have relatively high rake in the cash games. Does anyone know any major casinos where the rake is reasonable?

TIA

A lot of places in the US, it is 10% capped at $5 + 2 for bad beat etc. Sometimes $6 /half hour time charge for 2/5. That is the way it is in most of the northeastern US. Generally, US rake is better than most places.

I have heard in Germany and Greece it is 5% capped at $20.

Yeah a lot of places in Europe seem to be 5% capped at €15 for 1/3 and 2/5.

Can anyone else verify this, or does anyone know of other places where the rake is better?

Most likely somewhere in the third world, check the BigMac index.

FWIW, compared to the rest of the western world the rake in the US is certainly on the lower end of the spectrum.

Okay thanks - so which countries are you referring to in the West where the US has lower rake in comparison?

US rake is lower than most places in Western Europe and Australia. It's not like you're paying up to $22 (=20€) in any public card room in the US like you do in Germany for example.

5% up to $7 usd equivalent. Resorts World Manila, Philippines.

Mexico has pretty good rake as well I think.

5% up to 5$ (CAD to less than $4 USD) used to be standard in Canada, unfortunately that is no longer the case. Ceasars Windsor has 10% up to $8 (that's less than $6 USD). so that is pretty competitive.

i think calgary rake might still be pretty competitive. 10% up to $7?

If you're thinking of moving to another country just for the lowest rake, there are many more variables you should be considering such as game availability and weather or not the games are full of tight players, pros or loose whales. I'd much rather pay a rake that's a little higher if the games are a lot better with loose recreational players and if I can always find a game, but that's just me.

I've never seen anything to dispute that poker rake in the US is the lowest you can find.

But also please read and read again the PB2000 post.

Moving is a huge step for anyone. Moving and 'Traveling' are two different things. When you're traveling you always have 'home' to go back to.

Options and volume are the next key .. If you play in a fairly small Player Pool you 'should' see diminishing returns on your play due to Player adjustment.

Do you play online, live or both? Another huge consideration as there are US states where both live and online exist with NV, MI and PA right up there. I do believe there's some pool combining in the mix for some online sites, but revenue sharing and details have been in the works for a long time.

In TX there is no rake! So you will have a fixed expense to work with at most locations.

As indicated .. it may be better 'overall' for your BR/profit to play in a more profitable game that has a higher rake.

LOTS of threads about Players who are going to move somewhere and think all they're going to do is play poker 24/7 and make bank. I don't care if you do play 70 hours a week, you still have to experience your surroundings and thus move somewhere that will keep your mind at 'peace' so you can play your best poker. GL

Lots of good advice above.

Implied in your question is that you're planning to live in whatever location you select and you want to fund yourself with your winnings. The first question you need to ask yourself is whether you are a winning player or not. You can only find that out if you play full time where you are currently located. Prime time for playing is Friday and Saturday nights. If that's the time you're normally playing, you're going to find that whatever long term winrate you have is going to be smaller when you try to push 40 hours a week into it. That even assumes that you will be playing 40 hours, which many people aren't able to maintain. Keep in mind that when you're going to the toilet, eating away from the table, etc., you aren't playing.

I'm going to point out that the poverty level for a single person in TX is $15,000 per year. Not many people move so they can live in poverty.

Do factor tipping and currency differences into the equation. The last time I played in Australia it was 10% to $15 AUD/hand with no tipping allowed, which at the time was about $9 US. My local US casino is $6+2 rake plus tip which can actually be higher if you aren't there during a promo.

Are you sure about this? On Poker Atlas a lot of the casinos in Germany appear to be capped at €10?

Thanks for the information. It's a shame that the rake in Canada has increased from the previous standard of $5. I live in Canada at the moment and have done my research on rake structures per province. Calgary is easily the best city for rake, with 1/3 and 2/5 often raked at 10% up to only 7/8 respectively. Vancouver and BC in general is also reasonable. Toronto only has one public cardroom and they take 10% up to $20, which is absolutely criminal. The Playground in Montreal would be a great place to grind due to its popularity, and I would strongly consider moving there but the rake is prohibitively high at 10% up to $11 and $14 for 1/3 and 2/5 respectively.

So Calgary is clearly the best deal, but there are other factors to consider too, like the cities themselves. Calgary has a cool frontier vibe that I like a lot but the weather and sprawling nature of the city is a major turn off. Montreal only has one alternative casino to the Playground - the Casino de Montreal - which seems pretty meh from a grinding point of view. So overall, at least as far as Canada is concerned, I consider Vancouver to be the best option because it has at least six or seven major casinos, the rake is reasonably okay, it's a very nice (albeit a little expensive) city, and for Canadian standards the winters are not so bad.

Sure, fair points. In any case I'll be moving to a city that is a major hub for poker, with multiple busy casinos and lots of options. I don't think one can reasonably say for sure whether or not games will be regularly full of loose/tight players etc - these variables are in a state of flux between casinos. But to be honest it's not a major concern, because - at least in my experience - 1/3 and 2/5 games around the world are much the same; generally loose, passive, with occasional whales, and easy to beat.

Thanks for the tips. Yes I agree, moving rather than travelling is a big step. However, I feel I'm ready for it as I have a day job I can do from home and a decent bankroll. I also agree that player pool familiarity is certainly something to consider, and that's why I want to have multiple casinos available to grind in (although I have been playing in the same casino the last two years and I have not had a problem with any diminishing returns). I play both live and online. TX does sound interesting but unfortunately it's not a long-term option for me as I only have the right to be there six months of the year. Yes there are certainly more factors to consider than just the rake itself - like the games, the availability, the city itself and so on.

I'm sure many people try to move and play poker full time and fail miserably. Thankfully, I'm in full-time employment and currently only grind live about 25 hours a week (as well as playing about 30 hours online per week). I honestly think grinding full time would be pretty tough going and I'm glad to have a good balance. I have beaten live low stakes consistently for $30/hour for several years (I keep detailed records of every session I play). Last year I played about 1200 hours.

I'd just really like to find a cool city that has multiple busy casinos with decent rake structures. As far as Canada is concerned, Vancouver looks like the best option - but I'm also open to Europe and Australia.

Yes I intend to live in whichever location I choose. I have a decent bankroll to support myself, and I also have a full-time remote day job. I have been a consistently winning player online and live for several years, but I prefer live because the games are so soft compared to the same stakes playing online. Interestingly, my hourly winrate playing live is actually higher playing 1/3 than it is playing 2/5 - I've never been able to figure out exactly why, but I believe because people are more willing to play for stacks when it's for two or three hundred rather than for $500+. I grind throughout the week but weekends are of course much busier and with higher winrates, you're right. I play about 25 hours live a week at the moment. If I ever quiy my job I would probably try and double that also I appreciate it's not that easy to do, despite looking good on paper.

Thanks for the tips.

For sure, I always include tipping in my calculations - thanks.

Since you’re full time remote, why not try out a few places, especially if you’re considering going overseas

Sure, good idea and I may indeed do that - but I would like to give each place at least a year, so it will take some time. Vancouver looks like the best starting point for now.

Vancouver is a great city. If you look out towards the east like Surrey or Coquitlam things are more affordable also. Great transit, pretty decent poker scene (5 major card rooms), and there is a LOT of money, which is important.


It's really not that surprising. As you move up in stakes, the games get a lot tougher. Plus, no limit is all about the size of the pot. So the increased looseness from fish players makes the stakes a lot bigger, because the pots get a lot bigger. If a casino only has 1/3 and 2/5 then you are almost always better off playing 1/3, since all the "pros" and wannabee pros will gravitate towards the 2/5, whereas the noobs and weak tight regs will choose 1/3.

If you have interest in PLO that is available downtown as well, at Parq. Although the rake cap is a bit high.


Depending on your budget you might want to consider renting a room.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree Vancouver is a great city and certain a really good option for poker given the card rooms and the amount of money in town. Sure I agree with what you are saying about the difference with 1/3 and 2/5, although there are obviously fish at every stake. However in my case it is the same player pool playing 1/3 and 2/5, so there is no difference in player ability. My regular place (Elements Victoria, on the island) only has one table. So there is no choice for the 'wannabee pros' and noobs with regards to what stakes to play on any given day.

Yeah I was at Parq recently and saw some sick 5/10 Omaha games going on. Parq has been my regular place in Vancouver for a couple of years, but I only get over a few times a year. I've also heard Cascades has a very loose and splashy game, have you played there? I will definitely rent a room. If I decide 100% that Vancouver is the best choice for me then I will be moving there for the foreseeable future.