Board shows AAK28r

V1 bets
V2 calls

V1 hesitates
V2 says i have an 8

V1 mucks hand face down (hand is not actually in the muck pile yet)
V2 looks at his hand and realizes that he didn't have an 8 and he has 6 high.

all hell breaks loose and the floor comes to address the situation.. the ruling is that the hand is retrievable and therefore awards the pot to V1.


what is this i dont even

seems you were so flabbergasted you couldn't finish your post

haha. anyway, this may depend on where you play, but at my local cardroom a hand is not mucked unless it hits the muck. this should definitely go to V1. i once saw a guy fold and chuck his cards across the entire table towards the muck from seat 8. the other guy was about to scoop the pot when this guy had an epiphany and realized he had folded a full house. he asked for his hand back and took down the pot. i was like, how do you not know you have a boat? of all hands to not know you have...

what is more interesting is if it had hit the muck. i think V2 would get the pot b/c it's V1's responsibility to make sure V2 has what he claims before mucking. am i right people?

whats a ruiling?

Hand is retrievable, V1 gets the pot.

If it weren't retrievable some rooms would give the pot to V1 anyway because V2 overstated his hand.

thats a terrible ruling imo. protect your hand at all times. last live hand scoops.

Exactly the correct ruling. You cannot overstate yours hand and take down the pot.
If the hand is retrievable it should be live in this case.

This.

Absolutely NOT this. Having the last live hand because you over-stated your hand is not your ticket to a free pot.

You forfeit your right to the pot if you misdeclare your hand IIRC

This is the "standard" rule, likely to be used in the most rooms:


2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.

Only if you do it intentionally and only if the Floor wants to enforce the rule.

Amazingly it is still up to the discretion of the Floor even if it is determined that it was a deliberate attempt at SD. And at Bay 101 it seems that some Floor think it is part of the game to fool an opponent at SD (I witnessed this).

Personally if I miscalled my hand by accident as happened here, I would ask what the other player had and give up the pot if it beat me - even if his hand was completely irretrievable.

Misrepresentation of the hand loses you the pot. It is as simple as that.

Ugh, I hate this.

It's simple. When V1 puts his cards face down on the felt, the dealer should kill the hand.

If he does NOT (and this just happened to me the other night, when I did not want to show down), V2 needs to simply say "Is that hand dead?" and make sure the dealer mucks it.

Then he gets the pot.

Even if it was an angle to get V1 to lay his hand down (which is disgusting and reprehensible, of course), most rooms will award the pot to the last live hand.

If people didn't do dumb things like mucking their hand based on what someone says, this wouldn't be an issue. Wait and see what the person shows you.

It also wouldn't be an issue if dealers would learn to immediately muck hands pushed toward them face down.

Agree with your second statement, but not your first. It's in the best interest of the game to discourage (via NOT awarding pots) miscalling of hands at showdown. It just slows down the game by encouraging people not to table their hands and instead try a variety of verbal bluffs if there isn't a strong negative response to miscalling on the river.

You might not agree with the FACT that the pot will be awarded to the last live hand, but in my fairly extensive experience, that will tend to be the ruling.

And if there is a bet and a call or a check and a check behind, any good dealer should simply immediately instruct the first player to show his hand, and not sit still for BS. If the player says he has a royal and the second player mucks, I honestly think it's a crappy angleshot, but the second player needs to understand to protect his hand.

I cannot imagine releasing a hand with ANY showdown value whatsoever until I have seen the hand that beats me, and I cannot imagine not having my hands on my cards or a chip on my cards until such time that I do not want them anymore or the pot has been pushed to me.

As soon as someone mucks their hand, I bury it into my messy muck pile.

Except if a player claims to have a certain hand BEFORE the other player mucks his hand. In that case I WILL see that hand and verify it is the hand the player claims to have before I bury any other hand.

If the other player(s) still wishes to muck their hands, okay but the declared hand will be seen first.

No, he might think he has to show. He can fold if he wants.
One player to a hand please.

"You've been called." or
"You're first, show or muck."

The player who was called should have shown his hand first regardless. This is part of live poker that annoys me. I have called you, show your hand. This is just another poor poker etiquette move that slows down live games and makes online more appealing. If a hand is pushed over the line down it should be dead. The guy who announced he had an 8 obviously believed he had an 8 as I don't see too many hero calls with 6 high but the other player should have shown his cards because he was called. Accidents happen but this is bad poker on both parts. Player V2 should invest in Werbes patented flash cards