I mentioned the checking out of turn angle I foiled on another tread, but what other angles have people tried on you.

After some pre flop raise/re-raising (I was BB, he was MP) with a "maniac LAG", before the cards were put up, he goes "Wanna go all in? Let's go all in!" and gestured over his chips.

I'm sitting on AA, so I say sure and pushed my chips in. He refused to put his chips in, and flop was J high, so he folded.

I should have done one of the following:
1) Pull my chips back and make a stink about it if they make me put them in. He did induce my action, after all.
or
2) Insist he have to put his chips in too - This would have been weaker.

I've caught short stacks adding on black chips, chip stack angling...

What angles have people tried on you?

I’m usually pretty resilient but I almost got angled the other night. Guy bets turn and I float with AhQ on 10h3h6h2x board. River is Ax. He bets 100 in the dark and I reach for chips to call and as I’m reaching he goes ‘oh good I hit the ace’. I pause and he goes ‘oh you didn’t call?’. He was a little drunk and table talk is allowed heads up, but it was the first time in a while I was super angled. I ended up calling and he mucked but I haven’t been deliberately angled like that in a while.

'Table talk' is not an angle IMO, certianly not HU. It's a part of the game I enjoy although it's perceived to be angle-ish these days. The checking OOT can be and should be nipped in the bud by the Dealer. That is breaking a common rule of the game while talking is not. Is the chat box actually an 'angle' box online? Why would they have it then?

Not sure you'll get many posts here, there are plenty of threads to search from that have angle type of spots in them. Play the game, have fun and don't rush into your decisions just in case there is a slick oil salesman near by!! GL

I am not 100% sure this is an angle. This is close to action out of turn (but you nullified that by changing the action), is close to a conditional statement, but really seems just like posturing. This is no different than the usual 'Come on, let's gamble' banter.

I am not sure how posturing should be considered 'inducing action', unless you thought he was acting in a binding fashion, but I don't get the sense that this was the case.

Would have been more interesting if you had just responded 'call'.

The room I play in has a hard betting line. A lot of players take advantage of this by cutting out bets and moving them short of the line to get a reaction. The regs don't react, the dealers don't react, so the other player doesn't usually believe this is action, but they will sometimes react.

I don't consider this an angle, since I know the rules of the room. Players from other rooms would absolutely consider it an angle, especially since a hard betting line is not used in every room.

making a small subtle check with a monster then saying he didn't check whenever everyone checked behind multiple times

throwing chips out to call with a draw on the turn then pulling them back when the next person folded bc now he wasn't getting the odds he was hoping for

misdeclaring his hand multiple times

trying to say he was just the big blind or small blind at least on at least 10 different hands when he wasn't

intentionally covering his cards with big hands hoping someone won't realize multiway making it more likely for them to bet

these were all men the master

I think we can all agree that angling doesn't have to be a rules violation, but rather tricky ways to to get a significant advantage by inducing action (be it bets, calls, folds) or information acting out of turn and looking for a reaction.

I'd already won thousands off of this guy over the previous months, and I'm sure you would too.

Table talk is fine for the most part, but saying you have a big pair when you have 76 suited is by definition an angle, although not necessarily against the rules.

This instance was past the line of table talk, but I can't say it was a technical rule violation. He clearly suggested we go all in to get a read on me to see how strong I was. I already called his massive re-raise, but I suppose he wanted to see if I had big pocket pair or just AK or whatever.

How is stacking or placing your chips in such a way to get a reaction not an angle? I googled poker angle and the very first example popped up on Poker News:
Example of Angle Shooting #1:

Player A bets the river for 100,000. Player B makes a motion with his chips like he wants to call, to which Player A reacts. Player B now has additional information.
https://www.pokernews.com/pokerterms/angle-shooting.htm

TBH, I don't mind this one because I can it's easy for me to spot as well as variations of it. It gives me information about them too, their skill level, their intent in the hand, etc. Its not illegal, just kinda cheap, IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, this one is so common, many people feel its acceptable. I don't do it, I'd rather spend my efforts on spotting tells or thinking about the hand.

Yea the betting line thing trips me up sometimes.

One time I was bluffing the river, I had 275 in my hand and moved over the line and started cutting it out. before my chips even touched the felt my opponent tossed a single $100 chip in to call me. I think he was from out of town and must have played in a place where any chips forward are committed, but I'm pretty sure most places only commit what you leave past the line.

At first I cut out $100 and brought the rest back while flipping over my airbal hand but the player protested and I felt kinda shitty knowing that had he not instacalled I probably would have bet the full 275, so I pushed him the other 175 and let him know that next time he should wait for players to finish cutting out their chips before calling them.

I'm sure this could be angled the other way too where he only wants to call $100 so he induces me to stop cutting out more chips. But I didn't get the vibe that's what he was doing.

I felt pretty shitty after that hand for awhile. I think the embarrassment of my bluff getting snap called clouded my judgement there. I'm not one to look for angles but in this case I hadn't finished betting and could conceivable have been trying to bet a smaller amount and he basically called out of turn.

LOL I believe it, played with him a fair bit.

I have noticed certain players who always seem to hold their cards at an angle where it's hard to tell they have cards, or they stack their chips in a way that hides their cards from half the table.

Hell at 1/2nl most the shorter stacked guys always keep their arms/hands in front of their chips making it hard to get an accurate count of their stack. Mostly they are just resting their arm in the most comfortable position, but sometimes it's deliberate.


One time I played with a guy who made it blatantly obvious he was trying to hide how short his stack was so every hand I played against him I verbally asked to see his stack to annoy him and make sure other players got to see how little he was playing and adjust accordingly.

Yea these type of fakeouts are common enough. another one is when they check to you and start to pull chips out of their stack like they will call whatever you bet, sometimes going as far as to have chips in their hand across the line while it's your turn.

It's usually such a huge tell though that I don't mind it. You could definitely call it an angle as their hope is to induce you to check usually.

I've been hit by the checking out of turn one a couple times, but the one I see the most is someone trying to get me to show my hand before they've checked on the river. I'll check to them and they'll say something like "I missed" or "I think you're going to win" or "I only have a pair". I'm usually a fast roller, so it's hard to stop myself before realizing they haven't actually checked.

To be fair though, most people that do this aren't attempting an angle.

I do this too. If players are habitually covering up their chips, intentionally or not, every time it is action to me and they are in the hand, I will specifically ask them to raise their hands so I can see their stack, then usually fold as I intended to all along.

I think you havbe a misunderstanding of what an angle is. It is not an angle to do something to generate a reaction or induce action, people do this all the time. Hesitation, reverse tells, weak betting, etc.

What is an angle is misrepresenting action to generate a reaction or induce action, or, even worse, using ambiguous action to get a response, then changing your action based on how the hand turns out.

The reason why I personally do not fell, in my home room, that cutting chiops and pushing them near the betting line is abn angle is because, in that room, it is very clear that this is not a bet. They annpunce it before every tournament, and the dealers clarify it every time, so I don't think it is misleading. If you were not familiar with the room, you would probably think it was an angle.

In the city casino I play in, hiding hundreds in a stack of red, or mixing denomination chips in non standard stack sizes is very common- not sure if this is an angle or not. Older black men seem to do this a lot here.

In the suburban casino I play in, taking money off the table, or loaning money back and forth between players at the table, and trying to see other players’ cards are most common. This is mostly hot shot young white dudes.

I watched one dude try to complain he didn’t get his change from his big blind three orbits in a row. It was 1/3, that’s a sad way to angle six bucks.

I played in a new room last night and when I asked about local rules, they told me if chips cross the betting line, you can be forced to put them in, regardless if your intention was to cut out less. I thought this sounded like angling waiting to happen, but just made a mental note to very deliberate when placing bets and not to grab a stack...

These are the most common ones I see:

-acting out of turn to influence action one way or another

-having A’s or K’s and pretending you threw out the wrong raising chips and saying you meant to bet much lower

-using fake forward motion to garner info

I have personally been successfully angled by:
-going all in with KK late in a tournament, having a player say “ok, let’s do this” and turn over JJ. I turned over my K’s only to find his JJ was micro cm behind the betting line and his verbal comment not a technical call.

-Betting $100 on the river and having a player say “that’s too much for me....it’s yours” then mucking my cards only to have him pull back his hand and turn over bottom pair.

Thing is, BOTH of these were my fault. Yeah I f..... got angled but I learned from my mistakes. Blaming others for your own sloppy play is childish.

Although not involved in the hands personally, in the last month I have seen two vicious “angles” which technically didn’t violate rules but sure skirted “fair play.” Both involved players using lax dealers and house rules for gain.

1) Barely competent dealer who is always staring off into space bored; often not announcing action or doing so very late after numerous players have folded etc. After the river in a $80 pot, seat 1 with the nuts, throws in $10 but quietly says to the dealer who he’s sitting next to “All-in.” Nobody but the dealer and seat 2 hear him. Numb nuts dealer of course is sleeping at the switch and seat 7 says “call” throwing in $10. Both had over $400 in front of them. Yes yes, players are responsible for knowing the action in front of them. Angle $400 gain

2) I don’t feel too bad about this one, but it was still an angle: 1/2 game
Very competent middle aged women next to me took down a good pot from someone who had just come from a PLO game. In the pot were 4 $100 chips. Loud drunk joins the table and is hitting everything. Runs his stack up to over $700. Board comes four to a flush but pairs on the river giving the woman a boat. Drunk dude across the table with the nut flush, bets $50, woman says “raise” and intentionally puts the 4 hundreds underneath 5 - $5 chips, stacked vertically. As the dealer reaches to get the count, drunk says “call” thinking that by the number of chips, it wasn’t that much. I gave the woman a “I know what you just did” look and by the returned smile, she knew it didn’t go un-noticed. Angle gain $500

Not a huge deal, but last night I’m sitting down on the BB and pick up q-j suited. 5 limpers and I’m thinking about raising here to steal this pot. Young cocky kid TAG player, very solid sees me hesitate and figured out I’ve got big cards and says “ well you know what you have to do now and laughs..you got to make a big bet here and take this pot”

My gut tells me something’s up so I just check.. flop comes 8-3-2 rainbow. Cocky kid bets 20 on the flop.. everyone folds and he turns over pocket kings.

Can you elaborate on how this is an angle? A breach of rules\etiquette talking in a multiway, but not an angle as far as I can see.

Yeah table talk isn't an angle IMO.

To me, there are three levels of angling, and I don't really consider the first one angling

1. Misdirection or misinformation outside normal gamesmanship-Of course everyone knows that misdirection is part of the game, but some people consider misdirection outside of the game to be an angle. Examples are: Saying that you have to leave because of a family emergency and going all-in (with a monster hand), tossing in a bet with a large denomination chip then acting as if you grabbed the wrong chip, acting as if you misunderstood the rules (for example, in a betting line room, going across the line with a big stack and then dropping calling chips, then acting upset when you are held to a raise, when that is what you wanted all along). I don't actually consider these angles, but most people do.

2. Misleading action meant to induce a tell or induce action-examples of this are pump fakes, making non-binding declarations of action, invalid action (for example, tossing in a non-playing chip to see if the other player wanted a call or not). These often depend on an understanding of the room rules and how they differ from the norm. These are angles, but in my book, mild one.

3. Ambiguous action meant to freeroll a decision-This is when a player does something that he can later argue as action in two different ways, depending on what the other player does or shows. Some of these overlap with the 2nd group of angles. Examples of this are sayign things like 'Okay' when facing a bet on the river, then claiming this wasn't a call when the other player tables a winner. To me, these are really the true angles.

ive said "Okay..." so many times on turns and rivers facing a bet/raise, then folded 2 seconds later and never been held to call or had anyone even ask/consider it a call. usually im just talking out loud, and its usually followed by a sigh and fold. ive never even considered it as an angle or to gain info.

99% of the time im just sad i have to fold, cuz in live poker its easy to see when your opponent is nutted.

if someone is stupid enough to think "okay" means call and they insta turn up their hand lmao. has also never happened.

call means call, nothing else means call. ive never spoken the words call unless im putting money in.

"Knowing" this as an absolute is probably fine, but you're still risking some floor having a bad day or just getting tired of having dealt with actual anglers all weekend long and making a poor decision against you. I know your immediate reaction to this post will be "Then I will rack up my money and leave, they can't make me pay" or "that would never happen, I didn't say call" or whatever and that's fine. I'm just a big fan of avoiding anything that could lead to misfortune.

Just last night a guy tried the ol' all-in out of turn on me. I was first to act, and he had no issues acting in turn preflop, flop, or the turn. Then the river comes...

The board is AAJAJ, I have AT. He says all-in, dealer asks him if he's all-in, he nods and starts pushing a stack of chips forward, dealer asks me if I acted yet, just as his chips start to cross the line I just calmly pat the table to check. He then goes to push the rest in and I quickly call. He shakes his head, I show the AT, he mucks.

I consider both of the # examples 100% angles, but I've done similar in both cases to jerks or people I've seen angling. I have to say that not all angles are illegal, but sometimes unfair, but okay under certain circumstances. IE when someone tries to cheat or angle you.

I have to be honest, I've flipped someone's angle back on them and cleaned them out on more than one occasion.