he's new, you need to give him some leeway

dealer didn't need to wait longer, he could have instead asked - "what is your intention, what does that mean"

there's plenty of movie scenes where the guy just shows his cards at the end and wins the hand so I can easily see how a new player would be confused

likewise, if you went to a blackjack table and it's clear you don't know what's going on and you ask to double double on 20 (which is less absurd than folding a royal flush) then the dealer is 100% going to ask if that's what you really want to do and point out it's very unconventional

at some point we need to not be pedantic about rules and give new players a little more leeway and help

there's no angle at all, there's no way he's folding, he has an unbeatable hand, he probably thought that qualified as a call

a simple "what is your intention here" gets either a "fold" or a "call" response and then issue is settled - but i can easily see the dealer not doing that because this guy is new, and the likely regular who he shipped the pot is going to now always tips well (or even worse, if he thought the dealer screwed him would not tip again) and meanwhile for all the dealer knew he'd never see this other guy again in his life

they are super helpful in reducing angle shooting because then what is a bet/call and what isn't is more black and white

obviously you can also use the line to your advantage to angle shoot but it's much harder


there's no perfect solution if the floor isn't policing it, but a game with a betting line is easier to sheriff imo

Maybe the guy is new, or maybe he's just a douchebag who thinks it's cool to show your hand without saying anything. If he knew he had the best hand, he should have been raising instead of calling (uncertain whether that is possible since stack sizes were not given).

I don't think there would have been anything bad about the dealer asking his intention, but I think it is generally a house policy whether or not to do that.
When I was still a fairly new poker player I once did something similar to what this player did - I had the best hand, but did not end up with the pot. I didn't blame the dealer for my mistake, and I certainly didn't think the dealer should have been fired for doing what his bosses told him to do.

How hard would it be for the dealer to look at him point at him and say "The action is on you, the bet is xxxx." instead of slowly pulling his cards into the muck.

While I know it's no longer that common, I do not interfere in someone else's pot. However, where I think, as in this case, that a new player that doesn't understand the game very well, is about to get screwed, I will speak up.

I also think the dealer should be written up.

I've asked a few dealers about the hand and this is the most common and I think best solution.


It is somewhat of a tricky spot, as the dealer does not want to coach one of the players. This triggered a memory of a Commerce dealer costing me a pot by pushing a guys cards back to him because he folded a flush face up. (Or something like that. 100 years ago.)

It's different from blackjack because that is against the house and the house can caution someone against doubling down on hard 20, because they are the ones giving up the EV. They need to be more neutral when the money is going between two customers.

Think of a case where the board is 2345A. Bet call. Bettor shows AK. Caller ruefully holds up his cards, which are AQ. After a minute he folds. Clearly, nobody should say a word, except the bettor if he so chooses.

Everyone misreads hands and stuff, and I think the fairest thing is that you just eat it when you make mistakes, as opposed to sometimes the dealer bails you out, or another player speaks up. Then you wind up with players who lose when they make an error, but then when their opponent makes an error it's a different dealer who helps the opponent get the pot.

Again, I agree that in this case, it would be best for the dealer to say, "action is on you, sir." But less because the dealer should help out a newb, than because it was an ambiguous situation and the player had not taken a definitive action. Therefore it would not be inappropriate to ask what he wanted to do.

But, I can see why he froze up a little. If the guy had misread his hand and wanted to show everyone his bad luck and then the dealer says something and the guy says "oh crap, I have a royal, thanks dealer!" then that could be a bad situation. Dealer also might have had his mind kind of blown due to the fact that it was a RF. While he didn't make any kind of folding motion, the player had released his cards into an ambiguous place on the table. Dealer probably just thought, "surely if I wait, he'll say call. OK, surely if I start pulling in the cards, he'll say something..."

Another issue is, what if you are the other player? Do you give V back some or all of his money?

oh i've definitely stayed silent when people mucked when on person was playing the board if they were an experienced player

but if they were new i'd be that guy to speak up and tell the new guy what time it is

This is the opposite of true.

yes i know, it's been debated in many threads and i explicitly acknowledged that hence your dishonest snippet leaving out the rest of what i wrote



but thanks for a classic didace post of disagreeing without ever having the courage put forth anything of your own - most of your posts are just "no"

rick - you seem tense. Would you like to talk about it? I'm here for you.

About a year ago, I was chatting with someone in front of the card room at Talking Stick and we saw a completely naked dude running at a full sprint away from the casino and across the parking lot. I don't know if he made it home, there didn't appear to be anyone in pursuit.

you are smart and witty but contribute nothing but low calorie negativity here

you can do better

Both the playing the board and blackjack situations are not close analogies. The dealer could have inquired to the RF holder his intention w/o violating OPTAH. The dealer really cannot do that when someone discards to a player playing the board. The blackjack nonalogy doesn't apply because the house is a participant and they can 'give away any advantage" the house has if the house wants to. As a neutral party in poker the house cannot help any participant as doing so hurt the others.

BTW, I fully agree with Didace that betting lines not only can enable more angleshooting they almost encourage it. You have pump fakes, silent calls/bets behind the line (which are nothing if strictly enforcing), single chip all ins/calls if the room allows (though these can happen wo a line also), bring out a call but don't release or touch felt, etc.

Yes there are angles wo the betting lines but forward motion or past your cards rules have fewer. This has been discussed often here so I don't really see the need that Didace enumerate them but since you insisted I chose to.

someone just shared this - this is probably exactly why the guy thought he was doing the correct thing

damon never says "call"

he just flips his cards over and puts them next to the chips he put in the turn



dude was literally just replicating what he saw in the movies

But isn't the next part of the scene Teddy going ballistic and flipping the table? Doesn't seem like something you would want to be emulating.

Just rewatched the scene. I assume the guy didn't think players really bet like Teddy did, lol.

But if you watch closer, he doesn't say 'call', but he does move his chips forward (just a bit) before tabling his hand. I think it would be enough to signal a call.

As a dealer, I would say there is a huge difference between releasing the cards across the line faceup versus releasing them across the line facedown.

If they are released faceup I am going to ask the player to clarify the action because I don't know if he said something that I didn't hear. Especially in this situation.

I like the previous suggestion of telling the player that the action is $xxx and asking what they are doing.

Playing right now and seen something very minor, brilliantly petty, and I absolutely love it.


There are two regs who really don't like each other, and wvery time one of them gets up, the other one makes sure the dealer lobbies them in Bravo as soon as they do so that:

A) they dont get the pennies of comps for the time they're smoking/ in the bathroom, and

B) the floor will see them out for as long as possible in case they miss 2 bbs and therefore can be picked up.

It's brilliant lol

oh god that's funny to observe but miserable to experience

The guy on my DR is funny and likeable tbh, the other guy I have always hated

Not funny but certainly weird.

Withing a span of 5 hands two pre-flop all ins with big pocket pairs run it twice.

First hand, pocket tens spike a ten on the flop on both boards to beat pocket aces.

Second hand, 9 out of 10 board cards are hearts. Neither hand had a heart.

I don't even know which is less likely but guessing the 9 of 10 hearts runout.

Ugh, sounds like a dreadfully slow game.