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Old 07-19-2021, 11:46 PM   #1
sofsof
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Weird One chip rule ruling

Guys, did Covid fry my brain and I forgot everything I thought I knew?

Playing 1/3 Holdíem at a casino. Iím a small blind and have a $1 chip in front of me. Call, call, call comes around to me and I drop a $5 chip next to my $1 chip. They say itís just a call of the $3 big blind - one chip rule. I say, ďItís a raise and not a one chip rule because I already had one chip in front of me, and so the one chip rule doesnít apply.Ē

Save me from my misery.
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:15 AM   #2
dinesh
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Standard.

If you were big blind and put out another chip it’s a raise.

If you were SB but with a $5 chip, then added another chip it’s a raise.

But you didn’t have enough out there to cover the bet. Putting out a single chip is almost the canonical example of the over size chip rule in effect to make it a call.
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:20 AM   #3
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Standard unless you verbalized the raise.
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:21 AM   #4
PrinceJellyfish
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Always verbalize your actions. When youíre ready to do so.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:12 AM   #5
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Although I don't like it, this is what you'll see pretty much everywhere. TDA Rule 41 (C) and Rule 44 shows that a silent overchip is considered a call.

Now if you had brought out the $5 and picked up both chips (or even just pushed them forward) and tossed them forward 'together' you more than likely would've gotten your raise. That would be considered a multi-chip bet (Rule 45) and then those conditions would apply.

You can also see in 'newly' added Rule 46 (C) that language has been added to provide guidance when a Player already has chips 'in play' for that betting round. (prior chips)

So if you don't already, you should feel pretty ganged up on here since there are three rules in TDA that hammer this one home. GL
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:16 AM   #6
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Adding a single, oversized chip to chips already in front of you when facing action is always a call, always has been.

Now, if you had pulled your chips back, added a single overzied chip, and then tossed them all out together, that would usually be treated as a raise.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:18 AM   #7
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

The first thing you need to do is stop think of it as the "One Chip Rule". That's not what it is. It's the "Oversized Chip Rule". This will lead you towards the path of enlightenment.
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Old 07-20-2021, 10:31 AM   #8
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Obv not a strat thread, but lets not ignore the fact why on earth you min raise sb after several limps
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:23 AM   #9
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofsof View Post
Guys, did Covid fry my brain and I forgot everything I thought I knew?
Apparently.
How long you been playing poker?
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:25 AM   #10
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Textbook example of a call based on the oversized chip rule.

But even if we moved from there to “most likely intent” (which we don’t for good reasons), adding a $5 chip to the $1 SB in a 1/3 game is a super common way of calling. OTOH, raising to $6 after several limpers isn’t something you see a lot, definitely not from more experienced players.
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:07 PM   #11
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by PrinceJellyfish View Post
Always verbalize your actions. When youíre ready to do so.
I know a lot of players donít like to verbalize their actions, but I really donít see a downside to it, at least so long as tou do it properly. I would limit it to ďBet 25Ē or ďRaise 15Ē (or whatever other value you intend) and add no extra verbiage. Even for an all in Iíd probably just say the total and not actually say all in.

There are situations where verbal information is the only way to make the bet or raise you want anyway. For example, if OP had put out a red chip for his SB (he didnít have any whites) and wanted to minraise, thereís no way to do so silentlyó putting a second red out would be a raise to $10, not $6.
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:22 PM   #12
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by stremba70 View Post
I know a lot of players donít like to verbalize their actions, but I really donít see a downside to it, at least so long as tou do it properly. I would limit it to ďBet 25Ē or ďRaise 15Ē (or whatever other value you intend) and add no extra verbiage. Even for an all in Iíd probably just say the total and not actually say all in.

There are situations where verbal information is the only way to make the bet or raise you want anyway. For example, if OP had put out a red chip for his SB (he didnít have any whites) and wanted to minraise, thereís no way to do so silentlyó putting a second red out would be a raise to $10, not $6.
I think if you had a Red ($5) chip for your $1 SB in a $1-3 game, and put a single White ($1) chip on top in this case, you would have a silent min-raise.
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:23 PM   #13
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

If OP had verbalized all of his actions, then it would have deferred his learning of the oversized chip rule. Checkmate.
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Old 07-20-2021, 03:37 PM   #14
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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I think if you had a Red ($5) chip for your $1 SB in a $1-3 game, and put a single White ($1) chip on top in this case, you would have a silent min-raise.
Yes, but I was stipulating that SB didnít have any white chips in his stack. The only way to raise in that case is a second red, which would be a $10 raise unless a verbal declaration is made.
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Old 07-20-2021, 03:41 PM   #15
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by albedoa View Post
If OP had verbalized all of his actions, then it would have deferred his learning of the oversized chip rule. Checkmate.
True enough, and itís a good thing to learn the rule. However if you are confused about the rule, then verbalizing will always result in getting your intended action. Itís okay to understand the rule AND verbalize your intent.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:33 PM   #16
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by stremba70 View Post
Yes, but I was stipulating that SB didnít have any white chips in his stack. The only way to raise in that case is a second red, which would be a $10 raise unless a verbal declaration is made.
I suspect but wonít guarantee if a player took a red chip, showed it to the dealer and proceeded to slide it well forward near the till but clearly separated from the chip already there, the dealer would ask if he wanted change. Once change was given then a non verbal raise to six is possible.

Or one could verbalize a change request and then non verbally raise to six. Yes player had to speak but the speaking was not formally part of betting.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:34 PM   #17
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by stremba70 View Post
verbalizing will always result in getting your intended action
As long as you are loud enough and clear enough and the dealer isn't distracted.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:36 PM   #18
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofsof View Post
Guys, did Covid fry my brain and I forgot everything I thought I knew?

Playing 1/3 Holdíem at a casino. Iím a small blind and have a $1 chip in front of me. Call, call, call comes around to me and I drop a $5 chip next to my $1 chip. They say itís just a call of the $3 big blind - one chip rule. I say, ďItís a raise and not a one chip rule because I already had one chip in front of me, and so the one chip rule doesnít apply.Ē

Save me from my misery.
Not at all weird and precisely as it was pre covid.
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Old 07-21-2021, 04:22 AM   #19
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Ask yourself how would you make a call if you didn't have any other $1 chips.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:51 AM   #20
Mr Rick
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofsof View Post
Guys, did Covid fry my brain and I forgot everything I thought I knew?

Playing 1/3 Hold’em at a casino. I’m a small blind and have a $1 chip in front of me. Call, call, call comes around to me and I drop a $5 chip next to my $1 chip. They say it’s just a call of the $3 big blind - one chip rule. I say, “It’s a raise and not a one chip rule because I already had one chip in front of me, and so the one chip rule doesn’t apply.”

Save me from my misery.
Just learn from the experience and use two or more chips when you raise. I personally don't like talking when I am betting because it potentially gives off tells to those that are listening.

But if you can't put out more than one chip due to the denominations of your chips just say "raise" when you put out a single chip.

Many rooms will call it a raise if you pull back the $1 chip and then put out the $1 and $5 chips together. But I still don't trust that. Could get a Floor that just doesn't know its a rule.
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:13 PM   #21
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

at some rooms you don't even need to pull back the $1 chip, you can just pick it up and drop the $1 (existing from blind) and $5 and that constitutes as a raise


i think the more important question is "why are you trying to open min raise from the SB when at least 3 people have limped?" - but that's not a question for this forum.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:29 PM   #22
Fore
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
Just learn from the experience and use two or more chips when you raise. I personally don't like talking when I am betting because it potentially gives off tells to those that are listening.

But if you can't put out more than one chip due to the denominations of your chips just say "raise" when you put out a single chip.

Many rooms will call it a raise if you pull back the $1 chip and then put out the $1 and $5 chips together. But I still don't trust that. Could get a Floor that just doesn't know its a rule.
Multiple chips does not guarantee a raise. 2-5 and hero is btn. A raise to20, reraise to 35, you put on two green with a red already out there. Your 55 is enough to raise but as described would be a call.
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:43 AM   #23
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Originally Posted by steamraise View Post
Apparently.
How long you been playing poker?
The longer he's been playing the more justified his view becomes. He is wrong, by TDA rules, which are generally adopted nowadays, but TDA hasn't been around all that long.

Still, for sure, the ruling was correct by current standard.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:13 AM   #24
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
Just learn from the experience and use two or more chips when you raise. I personally don't like talking when I am betting because it potentially gives off tells to those that are listening.

But if you can't put out more than one chip due to the denominations of your chips just say "raise" when you put out a single chip.

Many rooms will call it a raise if you pull back the $1 chip and then put out the $1 and $5 chips together. But I still don't trust that. Could get a Floor that just doesn't know its a rule.
In tournament play, When a single large chip is the raise amount (for example, I want to raise to T1000), I will also add one of the lowest value chips (i.e. T25) to indicate a raise. The added benefit is that the less experienced players will frequently out themselves by asking the dealer 'is that is a raise?'.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:39 AM   #25
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Re: Weird One chip rule ruling

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Multiple chips does not guarantee a raise. 2-5 and hero is btn. A raise to20, reraise to 35, you put on two green with a red already out there. Your 55 is enough to raise but as described would be a call.
1) Why would the B have a red already out there? I think you meant BB .. Going off of that, this is a raise all day based off being able to pull back the red to cover the call and the multiple chips added blowing the 50% rule right out of the water. I guess it's possible that one of the Blinds made the raise to $20 then another limper made the raise to $35. Still a raise all day in my book by pulling the $5 back. The rule doesn't state that you pull back one of the smallest new chips, just one of the smallest chips.

2) If this is the B I think we have some conflict. Rule 42 states that to raise you must put out the full amount. $50 is a legal raise .. done, it's a raise. But then you look at Rule 45 and you do run into the multi-chip issue of one chip not covering the previous bet .. and being put in silently. (It's the Player's responsibility to make their intentions clear)

This has been my contention all along for these rules. Any time a Player puts in multiple chips we should first look at the total amount of chips in play first. If it's enough to raise, then it's a raise and we move on .. done, simple and quick.

We will still have the one-chip 'issues' but I lean more towards a single silent (whether oversized or not) always being a call when facing a bet and full value when not. Obv we still have the one-chip all-in that Players love, but I will rely on my Dealer to step in take care of that spot as quickly as they can before another Player acts. GL

Last edited by answer20; 07-22-2021 at 08:50 AM.
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