Washing the deck with a DeckMate2 shuffler - Page 3 - Poker Card Room

Since I regularly change DeckMate2 shufflers and I regularly plug two cords into the machine, I don't think I'm going to admit that.

This thread is hilarious though. Keep em coming boys!

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09-19-2022 , 07:27 PM

#52

OneCrazyDuck

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,882

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

PSS .. Certainly not a code guy .. but wouldn't this require much less programming than determining an order and then spending the time and 'making certain' that the cards are in that specific order?

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09-19-2022 , 07:52 PM

#53

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadstriker

Since I regularly change DeckMate2 shufflers and I regularly plug two cords into the machine, I don't think I'm going to admit that

Didn't think that one through I guess .. there is a cord that would communicate with the screen built into the table .. duh!

I was thinking more a cord that would communicate with a 'system' or 'server' of sorts.

There was a recent 'scandal' in a Texas card room where a few Players were killing a higher stakes game (stream?) and they were only 'running well' in hands that were put through the newly installed shufflers. This sort of died down quickly, but it would lend itself to some sort of knowledge of the order of the deck that could be translated into holdings and the Board cards. At least two of these Players were making 'interesting' plays in some hands.

Some of the Regs in the room insisted that the decks were hand shuffled going forward .. and from the brief intel afterwards some of the staff quit over the incident. GL

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09-19-2022 , 08:05 PM

#54

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,344

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

I was thinking more a cord that would communicate with a 'system' or 'server' of sorts.

Yeah, I figured that's what you were referring to just like the voting machines then, but if a player ever questions it hopefully they won't get auto banned and called a conspiracy theorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

There was a recent 'scandal' in a Texas card room where a few Players were killing a higher stakes game (stream?) and they were only 'running well' in hands that were put through the newly installed shufflers. This sort of died down quickly, but it would lend itself to some sort of knowledge of the order of the deck that could be translated into holdings and the Board cards. At least two of these Players were making 'interesting' plays in some hands.

Some of the Regs in the room insisted that the decks were hand shuffled going forward .. and from the brief intel afterwards some of the staff quit over the incident. GL

Also like the Postle scandal too. If there's a card reader being used, someone somewhere will always eventually find a way to cheat and use it to their own advantage.

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09-19-2022 , 10:43 PM

#55

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

Hopefully I've scanned most of the comments .. I want to put something out there since we 'may' be dealing with unknowns.

Might I suggest that when the units are in 'Shuffle' mode that they don't really care what order they are in when placed in the machine ..
1) Shuffle Mode
2) Place deck in machine
3) RNG 'picks' a redistribution pattern of the cards .. 1 goes to 18, 2 goes to 34, 3 goes to 8, 4 goes to 46, 32 goes to 1 ..ect
4) During the redistribution a camera checks the cards, making sure that all, and only one of each, are included in the deck
5) Ready for launch back into play
...
PSS .. Certainly not a code guy .. but wouldn't this require much less programming than determining an order and then spending the time and 'making certain' that the cards are in that specific order?

Actually no. You method requires more coding.

The machine has the code to read a card rank and suit and then place that card in a particular location. We KNOW this code exists as that is what the machine does in shuffle mode.

Now you don't want to do that (but to a different order), so you need different code (at least slightly different) because you want to generate a destination for a card based not on what the card is but based on the order it hit the machine.

Code overlap but still extra code needed to handle the two different modes.

If both modes work the same with (just with different destination order) you need less code. All the mode, shuffle or sort, does is select a different source for the destination. And in you method, you also need two destination sources.

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09-20-2022 , 01:17 AM

#56

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

Not going to do the math, but with all the possible combinations of cards in the deck there is one chance that the cards would come out 'sorted' via Shuffle Mode .. Yes? Would the manufacturers actually 'block' certain orders of the cards?

Doubt it. There are 8x10^67 permutations of cards. Very few of those permutations are “sorted” in the way you’re saying.

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09-21-2022 , 02:41 PM

#57

CowboyCold

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Requesting a wash is a bit silly but wouldn't mind if dealers did a bit of washing since a lot are **** at shuffling. Dunno how much the cards get mixed around in the mucked and when scooped up.

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Originally Posted by DisRuptive1

A 1 minute scramble beats every mathematical test for randomness, hand shuffling the deck 30 times comes close and 5 shuffles will give you an acceptable amount of randomness for the time it would take. Every poker room in Vegas only hand shuffles 3 times if a machine isn't used.

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Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

Doubt it. There are 8x10^67 permutations of cards. Very few of those permutations are “sorted” in the way you’re saying.

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How unique is a random shuffle?

The chances that anyone has ever shuffled a pack of cards (fairly) in the same way twice in the history of the world, or ever will again, are infinitesimally small. The number of possible ways to order a pack of 52 cards is ’52!’ (“52 factorial”) which means multiplying 52 by 51 by 50… all the way down to 1. The number you get at the end is 8×10^67 (8 with 67 ‘0’s after it), essentially meaning that a randomly shuffled deck has never been seen before and will never be seen again. So next time you shuffle a deck, you should feel pretty special for holding something so unique! Try for yourself – if you make friends with every person on earth and each person shuffles one deck of cards each second, for the age of the Universe, there will be a one in a trillion, trillion, trillion chance of two decks matching.

https://quantumbase.com/how-unique-is-a-random-shuffle/

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09-23-2022 , 10:32 PM

#58

darkcube

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fore

....and if they have a encryption algo with a checksum and the checksum compare is built into the device HW, you could hack the sw, burn a eeprom (or whatever they use) and have LINUX load away.

It will still fail on a startup code verification check.

such checks can always be bypassed/forged, in a similar way that we did an iOS7 jailbreak almost a decade ago. no such thing as a perfect failsafe, lol.

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09-23-2022 , 10:51 PM

#59

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Agree nothing is perfect. Never said it was. But much more difficult than has been claimed. And the iOS jailbreak method won’t work if security implemented right in hw

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