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Old 01-06-2018, 05:30 PM   #26
WereBeer
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Re: undersized chip

I'd rather verbalise 'all in', it's two syllables and I don't think I'm giving any information away by speaking clearly. I think it's good to avoid ambiguity as much as possible, saves arguments later.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:11 PM   #27
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
No clue...I don't make the rules.

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True, but we all can work to have bad rules changed. And in this case we can avoid invoking this rule.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:25 AM   #28
Koko the munkey
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Suit View Post
You're not the only one. There's at least 2 of us. I don't think there is a casino in America that has a rule that you must put some chips across "for the cameras". In fact, I would bet a large amount on it. You should put zero chips across or all of your chips across. Anything in between is bad.
Several years ago I was playing in a $1000 buy-in tournament at the Peppermill in Reno. I ran pretty hot and had a big stack (probably 3-4 racks of chips). When I would move all-in and had someone covered, the dealer told me to put a stack of chips out to represent the bet. I was still pretty new to the game and didn't think anything of it at the time, but more than one dealer told me to do that. This was before I'd ever heard of an all-in button.

I wouldn't be able to claim that they have the same rule today as I haven't played a tournament there in quite a while.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:50 PM   #29
Pensfan
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Re: undersized chip

I know this will always be the case, but I still can't figure out why there are people in this world who do things simply to complicate the process.

What are they gaining? Is the feeling when they walk to their car of "I really showed them how to **** up the process" that much of a win for them?
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:39 PM   #30
McMelchior
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Suit View Post
This flipping a single chip in to call is only something that should ever be done HEADS UP. It should never be done when betting all in, only when calling all in. If there are more players to act behind you and you do this, you are an angle shooting d-bag or you are ignorant to the rules.
+1

Personally, I am quite uncomfortable with this new-ish trend.

New-ish, since I don't remember seeing this done just three years back, but now it appears to happen every time I sit down in a game.

Uncomfortable, because it increases the risk (if ever so slightly) that

a. a distracted dealer might scramble the pot and push it towards me without remembering to collect the remainder of chips to match my all-in from the losing opponent (I've seen this happen twice - in a premium Strip room - over the course of just the last three weeks), or

b. an angle-shooting player may decide not to honor the all-in call and take off.

While I have never witnessed this latter contingency, there are a couple of high profile examples discussed here on the board (a formerly well know reg at the Borg for instance), and there's really no reason to tempt any weak soul by opening up this possibility.

The time it takes to push the calling stack over the line in every all-in/call situation must add a whopping few seconds to the game for each hour played.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:13 AM   #31
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
Several years ago I was playing in a $1000 buy-in tournament at the Peppermill in Reno. I ran pretty hot and had a big stack (probably 3-4 racks of chips). When I would move all-in and had someone covered, the dealer told me to put a stack of chips out to represent the bet. I was still pretty new to the game and didn't think anything of it at the time, but more than one dealer told me to do that. This was before I'd ever heard of an all-in button.

I wouldn't be able to claim that they have the same rule today as I haven't played a tournament there in quite a while.
If you had that many chips and had everyone covered by a ton, putting out a stick of the biggest chips you have was probably effectively the same as going all in. At least that's how it goes any time I ask a player to do this, as I won't ask them to put out a single stack of chips unless this is the scenario. Otherwise I ask them to put all their chips out, or none of their chips.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:44 PM   #32
keule
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
It's to save time if someone with a large stack of chips is calling a shorter stacks all in. If the big stack has him covered, and wins, the dealer can just push the pot and move on.

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Old 01-08-2018, 09:44 PM   #33
Koko the munkey
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen View Post
If you had that many chips and had everyone covered by a ton, putting out a stick of the biggest chips you have was probably effectively the same as going all in. At least that's how it goes any time I ask a player to do this, as I won't ask them to put out a single stack of chips unless this is the scenario. Otherwise I ask them to put all their chips out, or none of their chips.
I would agree with you, except that I never said it was a stack of the largest chips in play, and I'm actually sure it was a stack of 100's that didn't cover the other players.

I wouldn't have posted the story if it made sense or was in line with the thread.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:24 PM   #34
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
I would agree with you, except that I never said it was a stack of the largest chips in play, and I'm actually sure it was a stack of 100's that didn't cover the other players.

I wouldn't have posted the story if it made sense or was in line with the thread.
Then as you have written it I would have to say it was a ****ty dealer. Oral call or all in with no chips, fine in many situations. Oral call or all in and shove out a stack that covers everyone in the hand, also fine but now in all situations. Oral call or all in and put out one single chip, many places are fine with it (I think it is quite poor) and it usually doesn't create too much confusion. But putting out a stack that doesn't meet the current bet/raise or doesn't cover or doesn't equal ones bet/raise, etc will frequently cause horrible confusion and takes longer in the long run (at least if I am playing, because I am going to ask the dealer to make the pot right anyway now.)

So the random under call stack is the worst option. And if they say it is for the camera, the question immediately is why would "you" (dealer, floor, room mgr) want to CONFUSE the camera. The camera won't hear you so to the camera the only bet is the stack you put out. So why would anyone think a random stack that is too small to cover the bet or call would help security, you have to expain how that works to me.

Last edited by dinesh; 01-09-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:38 PM   #35
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Re: undersized chip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey View Post
Several years ago I was playing in a $1000 buy-in tournament at the Peppermill in Reno. I ran pretty hot and had a big stack (probably 3-4 racks of chips). When I would move all-in and had someone covered, the dealer told me to put a stack of chips out to represent the bet. I was still pretty new to the game and didn't think anything of it at the time, but more than one dealer told me to do that. This was before I'd ever heard of an all-in button.

I wouldn't be able to claim that they have the same rule today as I haven't played a tournament there in quite a while.
I know there are dealers out there that tell players to do this, but that doesn't mean it is the rule. I have heard my own dealers tell players this and I have no idea where they learned it because it certainly isn't in my rulebook. I think some dealers started saying this a long time ago and other dealers heard it and monkey see monkey do.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:28 PM   #36
MichiganGrinder
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Re: undersized chip

ive seen it more and more on tv and youtube vids of live play and twitch LATB ect.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:47 PM   #37
Aurora Tom
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Re: undersized chip

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Originally Posted by Suit View Post
I know there are dealers out there that tell players to do this, but that doesn't mean it is the rule. I have heard my own dealers tell players this and I have no idea where they learned it because it certainly isn't in my rulebook. I think some dealers started saying this a long time ago and other dealers heard it and monkey see monkey do.

For the most part it's dealer laziness combined with the push to deal more hands, especially in a tournament.
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