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Old 11-28-2017, 07:10 PM   #51
psandman
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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An approximate count of the two stacks is completely reasonable and critical in a spot where they are significantly different. If Hero covers, knowing his V's have approximately 250 and 520 means that he can profitably call if he believes he is ahead of V2 based on the side pot, plus has some chance to win the main.

Hero should also always protect himself if he is unable to fully see the stack or count due to some oddball stacking method.

At the same time, don't make the dealer count the change once you know the approximate amount. Similarly, if the stacks are in clear view or similar in size, look at the stacks, do the rough math, and make the decision.

Summary: Ask for a rough count when it actually matters or you cant see the chips and it's fine. Do it in other times and it's just wasting time.
You should never get a rough count.
The dealer either counts it or doesn't count it. The dealer should never estimate it.

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Old 11-29-2017, 12:08 AM   #52
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

What I am saying is that once the dealer counts the larger chips, i'm not asking him to count the 1's and 2's unless there are an inordinate number. 500 is not significantly different from 513 in determining whether I would call or fold. I assume he may do it as it is his job, but i'm not dying to know whether its 513 or 514.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:42 PM   #53
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Still does not matter. Once dealer starts a count, he should complete it. The few more seconds to get it right are trivial compared to getting it right. What you, I and the player consider insignificant might all be very different. I have had a player literally bet the max I would call or just a touch over. These weren't all in situations but they point out that a single chip can be significant. As such the dealer needs to get the count right.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:21 PM   #54
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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a single chip can be significant.
So there's a situation where you would call 513 but fold for 514?
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:38 PM   #55
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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So there's a situation where you would call 513 but fold for 514?
There definitely should be.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:14 AM   #56
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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So there's a situation where you would call 513 but fold for 514?
If you are using expected ev, implied odds, using ranges, whatever and are trying to use math as part of the analysis, then at what point do you go from a call to a fold? There has to be some point because while it may be in a gray area, you are not allowed a gray response. You can't call if, only call the $513. So yes in each decision there is a go/no go point. But I won't attempt to define such a case for me as it depends on the complete totality of the situation at that moment. Today the dollar may matter but in a similar situation tomorrow maybe it won't. But even tomorrow, there will be some amount where the next dollar is the decision point but it may be more or less than today.
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