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Old 11-15-2017, 04:42 PM   #26
Playbig2000
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
okay I'll bite ..... how would this be at all relevant to whether he can raise or not?
because you have to know if the second all in was a legal raise to the previous one that re opens the betting.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:47 PM   #27
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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because you have to know if the second all in was a legal raise to the previous one that re opens the betting.
Reopens the betting for who? First player can't raise because he is already all in.
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:50 PM   #28
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

I got a few regs who want a full accounting of all bets before they look at their cards. Often, after being satisfactorily informed, they will finally look, and insta-muck.

If you're That Guy, I understand your table-mates' frustration.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:15 AM   #29
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

thats where a floor person is supposed to step in and tell them they are ruining the flow of the game.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:22 AM   #30
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

It depends, if there are two shoves and I cannot see/count smallstack, an approximate "about 250" should be more than enough. If it is 238 or 262 has no effect what so ever on the decision and forcing an exact count is just stupid and holding up the game. If you have concerns about an angleshoot ("approx 250" from player turns out to be 100 or 400 or w/e), just ask the dealer for an approximate.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:11 AM   #31
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
I got a few regs who want a full accounting of all bets before they look at their cards. Often, after being satisfactorily informed, they will finally look, and insta-muck.

If you're That Guy, I understand your table-mates' frustration.
lol @ those players ever playing profitably. If they are muddling that much useless information in their decision process and taking forever to make a decision, they are not there to win money, but more just to kill time.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:48 PM   #32
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

As long as it's in turn, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a count of a lesser all-in when there are two all-ins in question. There is, however, something wrong with a player interjecting into the hand. The dealer is obviously also in the wrong.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:48 PM   #33
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
Yes you should know BOTH amounts - How on earth will you know if you're able to raise or not?
1) yes he is entitled to know all action on this street including both air in sizes
2) as written we don't know that there is anyone to raise
3) as written he has not acted on this street so regardless of the raise size if there was a fourth player in, op could re-raise
4) even if op had previously acted on this street, only the size of the larger all in is needed to,determine if he could raise.

So yes op is entitled but not for the reason you posted. Though in some particular scenarios you may need to know the size of the smaller all in to know the min raise size. Right answer for the wrong reason.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:52 PM   #34
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by Fore View Post
1) yes he is entitled to know all action on this street including both air in sizes
2) as written we don't know that there is anyone to raise
3) as written he has not acted on this street so regardless of the raise size if there was a fourth player in, op could re-raise
4) even if op had previously acted on this street, only the size of the larger all in is needed to,determine if he could raise.

So yes op is entitled but not for the reason you posted. Though in some particular scenarios you may need to know the size of the smaller all in to know the min raise size. Right answer for the wrong reason.
I thought OP was asking in general, I wasn't talking about this hand only

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Old 11-17-2017, 03:54 PM   #35
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by jordan1352 View Post
would mainly occur in tournaments, one specific example was i was really shortstacked, had like 5bb, theres a raise pre flop and a three bet shove for somewhere between 12-20bb, actions on me, i would want a count to work out the range this guy would have and what hands the original raiser would call with. i asked the dealer for a count and he just said he covers you.
To which you reply thank you, I know he covers me. Now a count please
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:26 AM   #36
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I got into an argument with the dealer about this:

A player with a roughly $250 stack goes all in. Then a player with a $522 stack goes all in after him. It's my turn and I want to know how much both bets are, so that I can calculate the pot odds I'm getting, but the dealer only tells me the $522 stack. Some d**khead on the table stands up for the dealer and yells at me "the bet is $522 dude!" in a frustrated manner, when I'm the one that should be frustrated here.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I entitled to know how much an all-in player has bet when it's less than the current bet?
What was your stack?
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:55 PM   #37
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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What was your stack?
Why
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:10 AM   #38
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Why
If his stack is $10 the dealer has a point in being annoyed by the question. He should answer it anyway though.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:04 PM   #39
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by madlex View Post
If his stack is $10 the dealer has a point in being annoyed by the question. He should answer it anyway though.
Still a valid question. Even if I have $10, knowing how the action went between the two previous all-ins, and what percentage of their stacks they are risking can be very crucial to me trying to evaluate their ranges
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:57 PM   #40
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Still a valid question. Even if I have $10, knowing how the action went between the two previous all-ins, and what percentage of their stacks they are risking can be very crucial to me trying to evaluate their ranges
If i have less than the initial 250 bet, i am being that guy. If i have 400 or less, the same. If i have the 500+ bet covered (or another big stack behind me yet to act), i agree w spew.

With these numbers its pretty easy to figure the main will be 3x 250 and a side will be 2x 250ish and second shover is risking 1/2 his stack if no one else calls.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:04 PM   #41
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Still a valid question. Even if I have $10, knowing how the action went between the two previous all-ins, and what percentage of their stacks they are risking can be very crucial to me trying to evaluate their ranges
But not to calculate his pot odds. That was the specific question.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:38 PM   #42
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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But not to calculate his pot odds. That was the specific question.
You altered the scenerio when you said 'if the OP only has $10, dealer has a right to be annoyed'. My point is that even in that situation, it is a legit question and the dealer should not be annoyed. Dealer doesn't need to know why the player asked.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:48 PM   #43
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

You are entitled to know the size of both bets.

I'm kind of surprised at people here not realizing the importance.

But you have to be careful in game of not tipping of the d**khead as to why you want to know. Better to let him not care about pot odds or implied odds.

Also, there are other reasons to ask for the counts.

I have been royally screwed by somebody who said "all-in" but didn't move their chips in. I asked the dealer if he was all-in and the Dealer said "yes". I then called and the player claimed he never said anything. So now I generally ask for a count when chips aren't moved in. I may call/fold after the chips are moved forward but before the Dealer has finished the count, because I can see that the bet is for all the chips.

Another more subtle reason to ask is that the 2nd guy has probably looked at how much he will lose if he loses HU. The smaller the cushion he has, the stronger his range. I find this particularly true in tournaments. Guys who are risking less than 25% of their stack will often try to isolate fairly lightly.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:20 PM   #44
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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But not to calculate his pot odds. That was the specific question.
If he doesn’t know both how can he calf pot odds? Doesn’t know the size of the main nor side pot.
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Old 11-23-2017, 04:26 PM   #45
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by Fore View Post
If he doesn’t know both how can he calf pot odds? Doesn’t know the size of the main nor side pot.
He doesn't need to know the size of the side pot and the main pot is 3x his $10 stack plus at least the blinds.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:41 PM   #46
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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He doesn't need to know the size of the side pot and the main pot is 3x his $10 stack plus at least the blinds.
Only after you added the silly $10 stack fantasy. The op gave the pot odds reason without the $10 and the op was correct.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:12 AM   #47
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

In any case, nobody should be questioning why a player needs that information while the hand is still in progress. There's always a chance they need to know for some reason you haven't thought of and you're disrupting the hand by forcing them to explain why it matters.

After the hand is over you could consider saying something. Even then it's probably not worth it most of the time.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:58 PM   #48
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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In any case, nobody should be questioning why a player needs that information while the hand is still in progress. There's always a chance they need to know for some reason you haven't thought of and you're disrupting the hand by forcing them to explain why it matters.

After the hand is over you could consider saying something. Even then it's probably not worth it most of the time.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:55 PM   #49
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

This just happened at FW in a tourney.

A guy facing two all-ins asked for a count. The Dealer gave him a count of the bigger stack. The guy asked for a count of the smaller stack and the Dealer just told him it was smaller. So the guy went fairly ballistic. He had to ask the Dealer three times before he got a count. Several players at the table joined in to either ridicule the guy or tell him it didn't matter.

I also told the Dealer to count the smaller stack (so no, I wasn't the guy).

In the end, there was no doubt that the Dealer would have to give the count. But it became apparent as to why everybody didn't want him to have to. It slows down the game.
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:02 AM   #50
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

An approximate count of the two stacks is completely reasonable and critical in a spot where they are significantly different. If Hero covers, knowing his V's have approximately 250 and 520 means that he can profitably call if he believes he is ahead of V2 based on the side pot, plus has some chance to win the main.

Hero should also always protect himself if he is unable to fully see the stack or count due to some oddball stacking method.

At the same time, don't make the dealer count the change once you know the approximate amount. Similarly, if the stacks are in clear view or similar in size, look at the stacks, do the rough math, and make the decision.

Summary: Ask for a rough count when it actually matters or you cant see the chips and it's fine. Do it in other times and it's just wasting time.
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