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Old 11-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #1
6bet me
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Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

I got into an argument with the dealer about this:

A player with a roughly $250 stack goes all in. Then a player with a $522 stack goes all in after him. It's my turn and I want to know how much both bets are, so that I can calculate the pot odds I'm getting, but the dealer only tells me the $522 stack. Some d**khead on the table stands up for the dealer and yells at me "the bet is $522 dude!" in a frustrated manner, when I'm the one that should be frustrated here.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I entitled to know how much an all-in player has bet when it's less than the current bet?
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:14 PM   #2
RJT
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Yes. You certainly are entitled to that information.

Valid and standard question (to the dealer) btw.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:31 PM   #3
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Yes. When the action is on you, you are allowed to ask any questions about the action on that round.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #4
DisRuptive1
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

You are entitled to know the amounts of any wagers including all ins for less.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:08 PM   #5
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

The all in player has roughly $250. Must you have an exact amount?

But, yeah, I'll count it for you if you ask.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:16 PM   #6
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I got into an argument with the dealer about this:

A player with a roughly $250 stack goes all in. Then a player with a $522 stack goes all in after him. It's my turn and I want to know how much both bets are, so that I can calculate the pot odds I'm getting, but the dealer only tells me the $522 stack. Some d**khead on the table stands up for the dealer and yells at me "the bet is $522 dude!" in a frustrated manner, when I'm the one that should be frustrated here.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I entitled to know how much an all-in player has bet when it's less than the current bet?
Yes, you are entitled to know the amounts.

While I agree that rough amounts are good enough, sometimes I ask because I want to protect against a bad estimate on my part and/or hidden chips on the players part.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:14 PM   #7
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

I have also seen players get bent out of shape when one player goes all-in, and an obviously smaller stack asks for a count.

You are entitled to know what was bet.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:59 PM   #8
Ray Zee
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

yes you are entitled to know. but irritating the table isnt good for you long run. and things like asking for exact counts when having a close idea is enough gets people mad.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:33 PM   #9
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Don't get Torellied.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:35 AM   #10
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by leavesofliberty View Post
Don't get Torellied.
This. Its always possible you dont see a big chip on a small stack and when you actually need to weigh a call its ok to ask the total of the pot.

This is assuming you dont do it to Hollywood alot.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:04 AM   #11
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I got into an argument with the dealer about this:

A player with a roughly $250 stack goes all in. Then a player with a $522 stack goes all in after him. It's my turn and I want to know how much both bets are, so that I can calculate the pot odds I'm getting, but the dealer only tells me the $522 stack. Some d**khead on the table stands up for the dealer and yells at me "the bet is $522 dude!" in a frustrated manner, when I'm the one that should be frustrated here.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I entitled to know how much an all-in player has bet when it's less than the current bet?
Yes you are.

What was the dealer's argument against it btw?
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #12
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Yes you should know BOTH amounts - How on earth will you know if you're able to raise or not?
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:59 AM   #13
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

I work in poker... yes you are entitled to know how much was wagered this round.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:17 AM   #14
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
I have also seen players get bent out of shape when one player goes all-in, and an obviously smaller stack asks for a count.

You are entitled to know what was bet.


There rarely a reason for player who has obviously less than the amount bet insists on an exact count of the bet .... but there are some occasions where it may be relevant ....such as in considering what possible other action may occur between other players (whether you are going to be facing multiple hands or getting heads up or in evaluating what the players intent in regard to other players actions might be)

Unfortunately most of the time that a player asks it is because they are so in the habit of asking for a count that they haven;t even considered whether a count is needed..... (I can't tell you how many times a day a player asks me the amount of a bet and is mucking before I can even get my hands to the bet to break it down) ....
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:28 AM   #15
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

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Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
Yes you should know BOTH amounts - How on earth will you know if you're able to raise or not?
okay I'll bite ..... how would this be at all relevant to whether he can raise or not?
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:32 PM   #16
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
There rarely a reason for player who has obviously less than the amount bet insists on an exact count of the bet
would mainly occur in tournaments, one specific example was i was really shortstacked, had like 5bb, theres a raise pre flop and a three bet shove for somewhere between 12-20bb, actions on me, i would want a count to work out the range this guy would have and what hands the original raiser would call with. i asked the dealer for a count and he just said he covers you.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:47 PM   #17
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Kind of what psandman said...or was alluding to, but here is what my initial thought was...

People in this scenario ask for a count of everything even though they have no intention of calling. There is often no amount whatsoever that would induce that person to call. (3-1...2.5-1.....whatever to 1) Often there is past history of this very thing where the person had asked, we went through the rigmarole, and right when the number is said, or before as psandman alluded to, that person folded.

Not saying this applies to you in particular, but a possible explanation of why the table seemed hostile over something it didn't seem like it should be.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:10 PM   #18
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
There rarely a reason for player who has obviously less than the amount bet insists on an exact count of the bet .... but there are some occasions where it may be relevant ....such as in considering what possible other action may occur between other players (whether you are going to be facing multiple hands or getting heads up or in evaluating what the players intent in regard to other players actions might be)

Unfortunately most of the time that a player asks it is because they are so in the habit of asking for a count that they haven;t even considered whether a count is needed..... (I can't tell you how many times a day a player asks me the amount of a bet and is mucking before I can even get my hands to the bet to break it down) ....
I believe it was heads up. His rationale, which I don't disagree with, was that he was trying to figure out what percentage of villain's stack was being risked, in order to try and figure out the liklihood that the villain was bluffing. It wouldn't have even stood out in my mind except the dealer kind of dismissed the request for a count by saying 'He has you covered'.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:27 PM   #19
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
There rarely a reason for player who has obviously less than the amount bet insists on an exact count of the bet .... but there are some occasions where it may be relevant ....such as in considering what possible other action may occur between other players (whether you are going to be facing multiple hands or getting heads up or in evaluating what the players intent in regard to other players actions might be)
I agree. There might be spots where you flop a draw that only gets the right price to call all-in if player A also at least calls player Bs raise on the flop. And there are spots where you think that your bluff catcher is often enough good against player Bs raising range that includes a ton of (semi)bluffs but you don't want for player A to call because his range includes mostly made hands that beat yours.

But overall, that's probably less than 1% of the time somebody asks for a count of an obviously larger stack.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:33 PM   #20
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan1352 View Post
would mainly occur in tournaments, one specific example was i was really shortstacked, had like 5bb, theres a raise pre flop and a three bet shove for somewhere between 12-20bb, actions on me, i would want a count to work out the range this guy would have and what hands the original raiser would call with. i asked the dealer for a count and he just said he covers you.
While I agree that there are times when it may be relevant. I think your case is not good example .... unless you think you have figured your oppoent to be working in a ridiculously precise mathematical model you should not need an exact count you should be ale to get there on an estimate (we are talking ranges here ranges apply to bets as well has hand values).


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
I believe it was heads up. His rationale, which I don't disagree with, was that he was trying to figure out what percentage of villain's stack was being risked, in order to try and figure out the liklihood that the villain was bluffing. It wouldn't have even stood out in my mind except the dealer kind of dismissed the request for a count by saying 'He has you covered'.
again this is the sort of thing which is not unreasonable to consider (in a tournament --- but is irrelevant in a cash game) and yet does not need the precision of an exact count. Is there some conclusion you would draw from a bet that is risking 27.39% of the players stack that you wouldn't draw from estimating that its 25% to 35% of his stack?

I'm not saying you aren't entitled to the information... just that many times its just not necessary to know ....
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:27 PM   #21
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
Is there some conclusion you would draw from a bet that is risking 27.39% of the players stack that you wouldn't draw from estimating that its 25% to 35% of his stack?
While I agree with your general sentiment that precision is not required, the case of two all-ins in front of you and you cover one but not the other is probably the scenario where it's the clearest exception.

You sometimes have vastly different equities on the main pot and side pot; so the size of the side pot can really matter.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:57 PM   #22
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Australia, home of unreasonable and randomly enforced poker rules.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:43 PM   #23
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Yes, entitled to a count of all chips from the current betting street.

I 'always' consider how much I can 'win back' in a side pot when making what might be a questionable call into the main pot type of decision. GL
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:59 PM   #24
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
I believe it was heads up. His rationale, which I don't disagree with, was that he was trying to figure out what percentage of villain's stack was being risked, in order to try and figure out the liklihood that the villain was bluffing. It wouldn't have even stood out in my mind except the dealer kind of dismissed the request for a count by saying 'He has you covered'.
That's my take as well. And yes it's a good question imo.
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Old 11-15-2017, 04:05 PM   #25
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Re: Two players go all in before you. Are you entitled to know both amounts?

yes, the dealer should absolutely tell you the amounts of both bets before you make your decision.

Like a majority of threads where the poster is looking for validation about their opinion/actions, you are most likely leaving some piece of information that is relevant to the discussion.

Like, you had earbuds in and the dealer had to prompt you three times before you took your earbuds out and heard the conversation.

I am not saying that you are at fault, but the majority of dealers have enough dealing experience that if their actions are not cooperative or seem unfair to you, there is an underlying reason why they are doing so.

Don't sweat it. Be courtious and patient with the dealers, and they will deal with you likewise.
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