A situation came up when I was dealing a 2/5 NL game earlier this week, it was 6 players to a flop and first guy to act bets 275. Next guy announces call and throws out three green chips, third guy and fourth guy both snap fold...fifth guy starts to tank a bit and it was at this point I realize that the second player wasn't completing the call (he only had 100 in green total to start and about 600 overall, I figured he was going to push two red stacks in after the initial 75 but it never happened)

I tell him "hey it's 275" and he says he thought it was 75 and tries to pull his bet back...what's the rule in this situation? Is he forced to call 275? Can he still fold while forfeiting the 75 across the line? Can he pull back the 75 and fold? Does it make a difference whether or not people behind him have acted?

Wondering if rules for this situation are room dependent or if there is a pretty universal rule across the board that I was incorrect about.

How is this anything but a verbally binding call? If he had placed the chips out with no decleration, some rooms would give him the ability to fold and forfeit the chips, but I can't think of a single room that would let you retract a verbal declaration, especially after people have acted behind.

This. I can't see any way that he's not obligated to call. Two folds behind him and both players could argue their action was based upon the call in front of them.

I've seen some weird rulings in different rooms but this feels like a 275 call in almost every room I've ever played in. But, as I've learned over the years, nothing surprises me any more when it comes to rulings in poker rooms

Glad to see I'm not going crazy. I thought for sure he goofed and had to be held to a call, but he disputed it, the initial bettor disputed it, and another player at the table disputed it. They all said he could forfeit the 75, I continued my case that he was not facing a bet and a raise so he could not pull back, AND he verbalized call so that seals it. They all continued to argue and said that's not a rule and that he is only bound to the 75 in the pot, and not a single person at the table took my side.

The floor working that night has half a brain, so I just said screw it and told them "whatever, if no one has a problem with it he can fold and forfeit 75". It felt wrong to me but it wasn't worth the hassle imo, especially considering the floor's decision would've been a tossup anyways.

Verbal is binding. If they were applying the 'gross misunderstanding of the bet' rule, he would be able to retract all his action, but I am not sure he could do it after other players have acted. As a dealer, you should at least tapped the table in front of him and said 'it's 275' after he undercalled before moving action. I would prefer for the pots to made right before action proceeds. If the players acting behind acted before ou could say anything, there isn't much you could do about that, I guess.

As a dealer, though, you shouldn't have to 'make your case' against the players. You make the ruling. If the players do not like the ruling, they can call the floor. This one is pretty straight forward. Verbal decleration, action behind....it has to be call

Under their rules, it would always be correct to put fewer chips in and leave yourself options.

Don't forget that other players acted after and possibly in response to the call. Not that it's the determining factor, but more ammo for your case.

Kind of off-topic, but it's interesting that the popular advice is to always verbalize your actions, yet here is a spot where it could hurt more than help you.

So because you disrespect the floor, you decide it’s better to argue with players and make your own rulings instead of calling him over to do his job?

This one is entirely room-dependent, IME.

Says the guy who clearly has zero experience working with floors who routinely make every ruling situation worse. I've had to work with plenty of those guys. I'm delighted by how OP handled this one. "If you guys want to do it that way, fine by me."

You will never hear that from me.

This game can be played with almost no talking.

As everyone has already said, there is a universal rule and it is that verbal is binding. The only chance this guy is getting out of making a full call is if the original bettor only put out 75 or if he maybe announced "275" but never put any chips in at all. If neither of those two things happened, he has to make the call.

That advise is almost always given to beginners. An experienced player knows how to act unambiguously without having to talk.

why did he think it was $75? I would think this falls under "gross misunderstanding" in a cash game and the $75 stays with an option to fold or call.

Usually, the way I have seen the gross misunderstanding rule implemented is that the player can take back his partial call and re-evaluate.

Even if you think the floor would've made a dumb ruling, you should've called him. Because sure as shootin' next week the same thing will happen except one player will object and others will say "that's how the rule worked last week". Then when the floor hears the story and asks you if that's true, your job is in jeopardy.

Step #1 is to find out what the room rule where you are dealing actually is. That will answer how it should be handled in the future.

As for the actual situation where you don't know the room rule, I've seen the ability to take back the bet, forfeit the $75 or force the player to call. Decide what you think the standard is and make a ruling. I wouldn't poll the table. First, there probably isn't total agreement and second, you don't want the players deciding they can simply vote on every ruling they don't like. I wouldn't call over the floor unless a player asks for a floor.

If you think the floor is terrible and is going to make a terrible ruling, you should still call them over because it is not your job to make decisions like that. How can any of us give you the right ruling when we don’t know what the correct ruling is for your casino. If you think they called it wrong, tell your lead dealer and let then handle it. Whatever they rule, just go with it. That’s your job as a dealer.

no this isnt a small stakes game. the players run higher stakes games and if its alright with them you let it go. all that can happen is no matter what the ruling, one of the players will be mad at the dealer for calling the floor.

^ LOL it’s a 2/5 game buddy, these people aren’t playing remotely high stakes and most of them are clueless about the rules, hence the need for the thread. It’s not a home game either, the rules are not fungible.

that word, I do not think it means what you think it means

As youtalkfunny said, this is room-dependent. IMO, it is also situationally dependent as in the rooms I work for there is no one-and-only way to make a ruling in this spot. See below.

The player would in most cases, be held to the full call since he verbally declared "call". However, there also some spots where he would be allowed to forfeit the $75 and fold.

Now, if I was the floor and I was called over, I would evaluate the situation since this does seem a bit ambiguous and a little puzzling to be honest. How did this guy think it was $75? Did the original bettor announce "275" and the next player beat him into the pot and put in 3 greens before the original bettor put in $275? If this is the case, even though "verbal is binding", I would allow the guy to forfeit the $75 and fold, since it is reasonable that he could have heard "seventy five" and with no chips being in there, since this is also a visual game, I could understand how that error could have been made.

As a dealer, I always confirm verbal bets by repeating them back. Did the OP do this in this case? If so, held to the full call. If not, again, it's not unreasonable that the guy heard "75". IMO, it would be unreasonable to have the bet declared then repeated, to then have heard 75 twice.

If the original bettor put in 3 blacks or $275 in red, whatever, (enough to be $275), before the guy verbally said "call", I would hold him to the full call, considering that poker is also a visual game and it is your responsibility to protect and confirm action. It would not make sense in this situation how someone could reasonably think that the bet was $75. Even if the original bettor verbally declared "$275" and also put the chips in, in this case, if the player argued that he heard "$75", I would still hold him to the full call (again, visual game).

Now, as a dealer, if I'm dealing that game and EVERYONE at the table agrees that he can forfeit the $75 and fold, then I'm just letting it go because nothing good can come of this for me as a dealer. I would not be protecting a player for their own good (even if they didn't know it), this is not a clear-cut ruling spot where "this is the rule in this room", and if both the original bettor and caller agree on this, as well as the folders, as well as EVERYONE ELSE, I'm only going to piss off the two players still involved in the hand, and that's not good for a dealer. I'd ask if anyone objects. No? Does anyone want a floor ruling? No? Ok, let's keep the game going. Move on. This is just my opinion, and in my experience, as someone who regularly deals high stakes games in Vegas (I'm talking $300/$600 NL+) this is usually what happens.