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Transgender - effect on table image? Transgender - effect on table image?

02-07-2017 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agamblerthen
...
One of the things I like about the poker table is how egalitarian it is. You'll find all ages, all ethnicities, all genders (or gender identities), all sexual orientations, all socioeconomic and educational backgrounds—but we're all accepted because we have something important in common: we all love (or are addicted to) poker. So come in and give it a try.

Good luck.
The first time I went to a casino I was scared for many reasons. And sure enough on the first hand I played (hopefully from the big blind) I declared two pair Kings over Fours when there was a pair of Fives on the board. A guy slowly turned over his Aces for the win and gave me a withering look. I've been having the time of my life ever since playing in casinos...

Give it a shot and see if you like it. Its one of the few places in the world where it doesn't matter what you look like, how you dress, how rich you are, what your job is, what the color of your skin is, what your religion is, your gender and/or what your sexual orientation is. The only thing that matters is your ability and willingness to play the game and the size of the stack of chips in front of you.

edit: Ah I see I missed the point of your post. When you come play, you will be treated as if you play like a man IMO. I think the regulars will expect you to play aggressively until you show them otherwise. My stereotype of women is that they rarely bluff and if I was playing with you I would assume the opposite until I never saw you bluff.

Last edited by Mr Rick; 02-07-2017 at 11:00 AM.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-07-2017 , 02:11 PM
Assuming you're starting at the lower limits, 1/2 or 1/3, I wouldn't give it much thought. The vast majority of these players don't play their opponents at all, they just play their own cards.

Having said that, if you're playing even a little bit higher stakes (2/5+), you might consider trying to "pass" for one gender or the other. No, you shouldn't have to. But the reality is that if you sat at my table, I wouldn't know how to stereo-type you at all. Therefore, I would pay extra attention to your every move until I had a lock on your game. And I think this would be a common reaction. You dont want to be "Mark".
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-07-2017 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drifter
Assuming you're starting at the lower limits, 1/2 or 1/3, I wouldn't give it much thought. The vast majority of these players don't play their opponents at all, they just play their own cards.

Having said that, if you're playing even a little bit higher stakes (2/5+), you might consider trying to "pass" for one gender or the other. No, you shouldn't have to. But the reality is that if you sat at my table, I wouldn't know how to stereo-type you at all. Therefore, I would pay extra attention to your every move until I had a lock on your game. And I think this would be a common reaction. You dont want to be "Mark".
I play 2/5-10/25, with 2/5 and 5/10 being my 'normal' stakes.

Trust me - I don't not pass by choice. I try very very hard to pass. I just don't - I'm tall, big shoulders, adam's apple, slight receding hair line, big hands, just the nature of 40 years of testosterone affecting my body.

Also, I dunno if it was on purpose - but I laughed at "you don't want to be 'Mark'", cause no I definitely don't want to Mark or Harry or Joe.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-07-2017 , 06:14 PM
I would assume the player is really familiar with mixed games.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-07-2017 , 07:27 PM
Caveats: I'm not super familiar with all the terminology (so pardon any mistakes) and I live in the SF Bay Area (so my experience may be atypical). That being said, here are my experiences:

1. Nobody is likely to care, other than perhaps some curiosity. If you're open about it people will probably ask some super personal questions. So don't flaunt it unless you want questions.

2. Even in the SF Bay area people aren't super knowledgable with thw terminology. I only know "cis" and "trans" from organic chemistry. Until you posted "Adam's apple," I wasn't sure if trans female meant you were assigned male or female at birth. Expect a lot of ignorance. Most of it is well-meaning.

3. Males don't softplay females unless the females are attractive. I don't know how attractive you are but if you have a deep voice I'm guessing that will turn off most cis men.

4. If you play well, people will give you a baseline amount of hate. So it's pretty hard to say whether you'll get extra hate for being trans. Don't assign all the hate you get to your gender identity.

5. I've never played with a trans that I could identify by sight alone (is that what non-passing means?). But there are several people who I think are passing trans, or at least reject traditional norms for dress and behavior. If people use the wrong pronouns, nobody says anything immediately but usually the dealer or a reg will gently correct as soon as they get up from the table.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-08-2017 , 02:09 PM
It's good to hear that the poker community is now acting more like this
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...39/index2.html
Then this
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...w-tits-696681/

even though I'm sure it's partially the forums they were posted in. Thanks for the advice everyone.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-09-2017 , 05:45 PM
A non-passing transgender woman is a semi-regular at a poker room where I'm a reg. Everyone is friendly towards her, although the biggest douchebag reg. makes fun of her behind her back. His words say more about him than what the other players in the room think of her.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-09-2017 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211
Seems to me that there are one of three possible reactions:

1. People stereotype you as a woman poker player, which generally means tight, ABC play, not a lot of bluffs and give you credit when you bet. Of course not all (or even most) women play that way, but it's the stereotype.
2. Someone takes objection to you (either for being trans or any other reason). I'd expect them to react by wanting to bluff you more, wanting to call to crack you more, and wanting to call you down light more, because they'll get some psychological kick from beating you.
3. People don't care and do their own thing. Probably by far most likely.

I've played with a non-passing trans woman once or twice in my game. It's in NYC and a crowd that's mainly in their 20s and 30s, so a pretty liberal crowd. No one gave her a hard time. The only thing I noticed was that, as common when a woman is playing in the game who's not a regular, the table talk (which is usually pretty misogynist/racist/anti-everyone-ist, but in a reasonably funny/good-natured way) was toned down a bit until she left, at which point it got much worse because it was bottled up for a while.
I think every low stakes poker table is like that. It's Archie Bunker meets amateur night at the local comedy club....
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-09-2017 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
It's good to hear that the poker community is now acting more like this
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...39/index2.html
Then this
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...w-tits-696681/

even though I'm sure it's partially the forums they were posted in. Thanks for the advice everyone.
It also may just be a function of time.

The player pool got older from 2007-2017, and with age usually comes the realization that other peoples' genitals are other peoples' business. The gay jokes and transgender jokes that were super funny when we were 10 years younger just don't stand the test of time. If you were to track down the most egregious commenters from the second thread, I'm sure a good number of them would read what they wrote and cringe.

Also societal attitudes have changed somewhat but probably less so in the poker room than in society as a whole.

Good luck at the tables. If you're in the SF Bay Area and want to grab a drink, shoot me a PM.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
01-29-2024 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
I have a kinda odd question, that I signed up just to ask.

How do you think players view a non passing transgender woman at the table? I usually play in a chill and friendly home game, but would like to play at the casino. Obviously I'll get ****, that's just life, but do you think I'll get extra action? I don't expect people to softplay me like they do with cis women, but maybe they'll tilt more when I beat them? Anyone have any experience?
This is a really old thread but I came across it and decided to join in order to answer the question. I'm sure Joan is happily playing, there are probably some trans people reading this who are a little scared to sit down at a table. I began my transition about a year and a half after this thread was created. On that day I also began playing poker tournaments at Foxwoods in Ledyard, CT.

There were a few times during that drive down the interstate that I almost turned around and headed back home. Thankfully I didn't, because what I discovered was that no one really seemed to care and they saw me as just another person who liked to play poker. I never really noticed people playing differently against me than they would against any other player at the table. I did notice the acceptance that I received and since then have made quite a few friends at the poker tables.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
01-30-2024 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily W Trott
This is a really old thread but I came across it and decided to join in order to answer the question. I'm sure Joan is happily playing, there are probably some trans people reading this who are a little scared to sit down at a table. I began my transition about a year and a half after this thread was created. On that day I also began playing poker tournaments at Foxwoods in Ledyard, CT.

There were a few times during that drive down the interstate that I almost turned around and headed back home. Thankfully I didn't, because what I discovered was that no one really seemed to care and they saw me as just another person who liked to play poker. I never really noticed people playing differently against me than they would against any other player at the table. I did notice the acceptance that I received and since then have made quite a few friends at the poker tables.
After reading this and probably having played tournament(s) with you at Foxwoods (as that was my home base for tournaments until Covid hit) my guess is that I didn't even realize that you were trans. I'm glad you have made friends and that you were accepted as part of our poker community. For me one of the things I care about the most is making the environment fun and friendly so people will come back to play.

Apparently I saw you as a woman who liked to play poker.

So Joan (OP) I take back what I said about you. I doubt I would have realized you were trans because I don't focus on adam's apples, especially when I am playing. I would have assumed you don't bluff much until I actually saw you bluffing much. In other words I would just assume that people are going to treat you as a woman with all of their stereotypes and behavioral habits. I am curious though, as to how it went for you.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
01-30-2024 , 01:16 PM
Anyone who stands out, for any reason, is going to draw my attention to see if there is some behavior I can take advantage of. Beyond that, I just don't care, except for people acting inappropriately in a public setting.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-05-2024 , 09:14 PM
As long as you don't act like somebody who believes marijuana is the cure for everything; crossfit enthusiast; bitcoin player; or vegan who just won't shut the f up about their passion I don't think most people would care much.

Related, a joke. A vegan, crossfitter, and bitcoin player walk into a bar. How do you know which is which? Don't worry, they will let you know.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote
02-10-2024 , 11:28 AM
I have been thinking about this a bit
Here are my beliefs
1. The vast majority of players won't care, they will be focused on how you play
2. If the talk turns to politics or social issues, most of the players will not engage, and would likely try to shut up the one or two people at the table who will try to make it an issue
3. Socially, while a trans person would make people uncomfortable, having the context of poker gives people an easy framework for interaction, so that will make it easier to interact

Now, me personally, if I were playing a trans individual, I would make the following adjustments in my reads (justified or not)
1. I would give them more credit for being self aware and introspective, so I would think that they may be more aware of how they are playing and or if they are tilting
2. I would give them more credit for being aware of their image and body language. The trans individuals I know well (a small number, 2) have spent a lot of time and energy in changing their appearances and how they present. This includes awareness of , and reworking of, their mannerisms.

I do play in North Texas\Southern OK, so this region is fairly transphobic. But I do think this is really just a vocal minority, and most people don't care. I also think that these transphobic individuals are usually too cowardly to say anything unless they are sure that they will be supported by the mob. So I think that, by and large, a poker game is focused on poker, and the fact that someone is trans will be just one more data point when players are trying to make a read.
Transgender - effect on table image? Quote

      
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