I play mostly live 1-3 NL games and wanted to track my stats and those of my opponents. I downloaded a few apps to do this, but they were either to difficult to use at the table, needed to much input, or didn't give me useful stats (ie position based plays, post - flop, etc). I built a Web prototype of my own for mobile Chrome browser and it seems to deliver well at the table. I'm thinking of developing it as an android app, but would appreciate other players' feedback before I invested a few months in it. Is anyone out there interested in giving my prototype a go? All feedback would be appreciated (well all well-meaning feedback! )

If I get some interest I'll email the url and some instructions.

Cheers Paul

Sounds impossibly cumbersome. While you're entering all this tedious information you'll be missing out on what's happening at the table.

That's what I found. So I built my own. I can track hands without even looking at my screen. But I know I'll be biased, so that's why I am looking for anyone interested in trying it out for themselves.
Or to see if people say it can't be done, or wouldn't be worth trying.

live game are more a feel and tells game. its more fun

There is a great app out there, been around for a while..... It's called your brain.....

Sorry, that came out a little harsh. But, I think you're better off just observing.

It seems live tracking wouldn't be for everyone. I wonder if it interests anyone? Cheers.

I'm really trying not to be sarcastic here, but I think this is comically misguided. Poker is a people game. Online poker is more like a computer game.

Any skillful field is going to eat you alive while you're referring to your cell phone, and it's obvious you don't have a lot of experience in a brick and mortar room, because if it's got more than a dozen tables going regularly, you will constantly see people you have never seen before, so your app will be worthless. Not to mention, you may like to play somewhere else, and what good will your app do then?

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm a successful player (well I beat the rake) and I am interested in improving my game, applying strategies from Miller, Malmouth and Co. But I appreciate that for yourself and many it is more about intuition and feel. Thanks again.

What can be done instantly and seamlessly with a HUD online would be impossible to reproduce at the poker table when you have to enter the information yourself.

Also, how are you going to track individual players? Take a photo, then refer to a gallery every time a new player sits down? What if they got a haircut and are wearing sunglasses?

There's also the unexplored issue of whether it would even be allowed in a real card room, which I doubt. In any case, good luck.

Not to sidetrack your app idea, but have you used your chips to help keep track what you want to track? If you have three stacks of any size, you can use two stacks to track information that may be useful to you.

If your room uses chips with side markings, you can go two or three chips deep on an unused stack. That is potentially a lot of information if used across two stacks. To other players it looks like you are fussing over your chips.

I find live poker very dynamic with the mood and play of the table changing often. I can't see how tracking too much information would be helpful in the short term of a session.

I don't mind a side track. I'd like to hear more about how you use your chips to track info.

I'm using my app to track vpip, pfr, cbet, 3bet, and fold2cbet for each player for various positions relative to the button. As I play for 4-6 hours per session I think there's time to develop useful stats, and often the players remain quite constant throughout my sessions.

Anyway, feel free to illuminate me some on you chip usage - you've got my interest!

I use Donkey Tracker. Only tracks VPIP/PFR. Wish it tracked 3 bet percentage too. I find these helpful since everyone is taking an action preflop so you get real data. I probably wouldn't bother with post flop tracking as there isn't enough data.

I have found this app has made me money before but I usually play w a small player pool. Most helpful to see that the guy limping every hand has only raised once in 100 hands pre and the guy I perceived as a nit is really playing 35/20 so is raising more than QQ/AK.

Hi there. That was also one the apps i tried. I found the static layout of DT made it easy to lose track of who had the action, also hitting the right action button for each player was a bit fiddly. Did you find any of those issues?

I use swipes and taps to record the various player actions with actions moving automatically around from player to player - so I can record play without looking at the screen.

Thank you for your feedback on DT. Would you like to see my application? Flick me your email if you are interested. Cheers.

is this going to be a free app once it's developed, or a free trial period?

Hmm. I'm not sure. I would probably make it freely available for people helping with feedback. It would be nice to make something worth paying for though, as that would mean I'd developed something that people found to improve their results.

But that is a problem I'm still a long way from having to grapple with.

Honestly I don't think this sort of thing should be allowed at the table. I just feel like tracking detailed stats like that goes against the spirit of the game.

Maybe I'm just resistant to change, but it also seems like seeing tables full of regs with their phones out reviewing 3bet%s and discussing how often so-and-so folds to cbets from the SB is going to send rec players running for the hills. I just can't imagine this being good for the games.

I think it's unlikely to be common as many players would deny these stats have value. But I think they do so I track them. I am interested to hear how you think it would impact others. I have used my prototype and no one seemed to even notice.

If you need an app to tell you those things, you just are not paying attention.

You can't tell George only raised once every 3 or 4 hours?

You think a guy who plays 1/3 of the hands and raises twice an orbit is a nit?

The app helps me pay attention to those things, especially for one of the people at the table I haven't really targeted or played with before. I'm sure plenty of people don't need it, and I can easily play without it, but I've found it helpful. In particular, hard for me to remember the difference between a guy who raises once or twice an hour and the guy who raises once or twice a session, or the guy who raises every orbit v twice an or it v every other orbit.

So, you may not need it but I've found it helpful. For instance, I was playing a hand where I was about 400 deep and see a raise by a very loose player to my right. I min raise to isolate w AJ and get cold called by a guy in the blinds I thought was a nit. Table was 10-handed and he hadn't been making much noise in about an hour so in my head he was nitty. Look down though and he's playing about 35/15, but the hands he was involved in were either folded pre or on the flop and I had never played with him before so he hadn't made an impression. Flop comes J high and I get 2 streets of value from him (flop and river) when he had second pair with 99. If I think he's a nit, I'm worried he's only cold calling a 3 bet w AK or an overpair and never bet river. With the stats I realized he could have a lot of worse pairs that could pay me on river.

Of course I could've tracked this wo the app, but I don't know if I would've overcome my impression of him as a quiet nitty guy.

This is exactly why these things shouldn't be allowed in live poker.

Mj. I don't understand what the issue you have with people recording table action. Could you explain your point of view?

Because learning to keep track of that stuff on your own is part of the game. That's what I meant before when I said using an app like what you're talking about is, IMO, against the spirit of the game and shouldn't be allowed at a live poker table.

Could it be fair for me to say that you see it as part of your game. And fair enough. But I think for many folk interested in the maths of poker ( the geeks ), accurate stats is a desirable part of theirs. You know, one man's trash is another's treasure.

While I appreciate the work you've done and how rational you're being in replying, I am strongly against this.

This kind of software simply has no place in live poker. Online poker steadily and sharply declined in an inverse correlation with the amount of technology and software available to players. One mention or sight of something like this in a card room could put a $1500/week loser rec player off for life. I've seen it happen online. This harms literally everything and everyone involved in the poker ecosystem except the user.

Using something like this in a live setting is both incredibly selfish and short-sighted. We should be trying to grow the poker economy, not rabidly chasing away the people who literally make profitable poker possible.

People beat 5/10nl for $130+ an hour over thousands of hours. People beat 25/50nl and 25/25PLO in local games around where I live consistently. You do not need tracking software to beat 1/3, and you should feel almost embarrassed for even suggesting it.

Instead of spending all this time trying to get an unfair advantage over many players who are going to a casino to have a good time and gamble it up, you should try simply improving your game like every other winning player does.

If you want to crunch numbers, you have online sites with hundreds of thousands of players who are all of a similar mindset.