You make some great, great points (this coming from a player who has always felt pressured into over-tipping due to regular contact with the dealing staff). For the requirements of the job, poker dealers definitely make substantially more than other jobs that involve a higher skill-set and/or substantially worse working conditions. I couldn't agree more with your point about tipping in the US as well, as it is almost considered crazy if you don't tip, and the service is no better for the practice due to such expectations.

So I'm assuming you dont believe in tipping barbers either, then?

or valets?

or bellhops?

or massueses?

or cab drivers?

you're not leaving with anything tangible in your pocket...

Tell me, how does a cab driver treat good tippers different from bad tippers?
drive them faster??

or a valet?
park they're car more evenly in the parking space??

or a bellhop?
carry they're bags more efficiently??

or a barber?
Cut they're hair better??

a) doesnt seem like they have the ability to "treat" someone better then others.

b) if they're getting tipped at the end of the job, seems to me they just treat everyone the same and hope to get a good tip.

Your whole point is stupid, and doesnt make any sense at all.

For one. An incentive against long hualing. Also, good tipping can be contigent on how helpful he is when getting in and out of the car, say with luggage.

Park closer, bring my car around faster when I come out.

Clearly your bald.

Mind posting what casino your friend works at. My GF works in the pit and doesn't come close to this on the biggest toke periods of the year.

Unfortunately she doesn't want to deal poker, which is the only dealing job in the casino that comes close to this wage. So maybe we can move to where your buddy works.

I'm simply explaining the difference between tipping tipping service professionals who provide a tangible good and those who provide only a service.

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That said, I dislike tipping on service that can not change, no matter how I tip. Most of those professions listed above can go above and beyond the call based on my tip; and what they do above and beyond impacts me personally. Dealers... ...not so much. At best they can deal a few more hands per hour if correctly motivated.

Tipping by custom, and not based on performance is moronic.

Thank you for performing the job which I already paid someone else to do, now here's some of your base pay out of my pocket. Thanks!

It's a dumb custom.

Seriously? You think that you can't tip the cab driver to avoid a long-haul, or get your bags taken care of better? Or that the valet won't park your car in the shade instead of under a tree full of crapping birds? Or that a well-tipped barber or stylist won't seat you ahead of some other walk-in, or will spend longer on the massage or wash?

You're the champion of tipping in this thread, and you don't understand why we do it?

Other than paying his salary, what's the point of tipping a dealer?

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Also, WUT?!? Tip everyone after? You don't tip the valet who PARKS your car; and you don't do it before he drives away? You just tip the one who gets it? And you want to explain to us how to tip? The valet who gets your car might not be the same guy who got it, and certainly isn't the one who decides to put it in the shade.

yesterday I cashed for 850 profit in a live tourney. I tipped $11 total. $5 staff appreciation + $5 to the dealer + $1 to floorman. Felt like I tipped too much. Flame away.

You tip all these people AFTER the job is done, so please explain to me how this works unless you're a regular. In fact, by your logic, whats the point of tipping anyone, if you're in a foriegn town that you'll never come back to. What's the point of tipping that waitress at all? The job is already done. And she can't do anything more for you when you tip. You're not gonna get anything else out of it. So I guess it's illogical

Pretty weak. You're stretching pretty hard.

Poker dealers will deal faster to better tippers wich I think improves your life at the poker room a little bit more then wether your car is in the shade. But thats just my opinion.

Please post a link to the garbage man forum where you are busy championing they're cause. Or post a link to ANY other forum where you're feverishly arguing how someone deserves/should get tipped/payed MORE of your money.

Get this through your head. You are not a champion of labor industry equality. You are a guy who doesn't like tipping and are outwardly justifying it. That's all.


You would be a much better person if you were the latter. If a guy wants to sit there and not tip. Fine. He won't be the most popular guy with the staff, but whatever. But if a guy goes around the room, trying to convince other people not to tip. That is very scummy.

if being a poker dealer is SUCH an "OVERPAYED", "EASY" job. And I've won some kind of "tip lottery" just by having it. Why aren't you running out and trying to get a dealer job?? Cashing in on the "gold rush" of "undeserved money". The fact that you aren't means that you are either unwilling, or unable to do so. In wich case you have no right to judge what we make as too much.

Well, why don't you answer my questions?

Are your games really overrun by non-tippers?

If so, why are you still dealing?

If you are in the box 30 hours a week, how does one or two no-tippers drastically affect your bottom line?

You might. Don't presume that I'm so silly as to not tip a bag handler the SECOND he touches my bags or the valet the instant I give him the keys. Seriously, you tips those guys AFTER?!?

Your logic is astoundingly bad.

Perhaps I have a better job that I enjoy and pays me more than dealing?

The question isn't why I don't deal poker - that's easy. The question is why poker dealers keep dealing poker.

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And you can keep pretending we're stiffs if it makes you feel better.

No, they're not

It doesn't.

I'll be waiting for those links, Ghandi.

So this jihad against a few people who have questions about the tipping culture is because.....?

As I have pointed out several times, Management has much more to do with your bottom line than a few non-tippers. But nobody wants to complain about them.

What links?

Yep they never complain about their employers paying such low wages. And when they have had opportunities to unionize they vote it down.

But isn't that dependant on the table as a whole? So I can tip well, but the rest of the table could be cheap and then what? How do you provide better service to me while providing a lesser level of service to the rest of the table? And what about the opposite. Suppose I'm the only cheapskate at the table not tipping at all but the rest of the table is full of jovial drunks tipping generously and lets say they don't mind/notice I'm not tipping. How exactly do I get the short end of the stick vs. them for my unwillingness to tip?

Because dealer's salary is left OUT of the cost and expected to be made up in gratuity. If they did pay us our full wage you would have a much higher rake, and end up paying us anyway.

There is another interested party.

The House.

The one that actually employs the dealer.

Tell the House: "I will deal X hands per hour so you can collect $Y in rake, unless they do not tip enough. Then I will deal 20% slower and you will collect 20% less rake."

Yes. It does depend on the table as a whole.

Yes. You can "piggy back" your way to better service, just by being at a table full of good tippers. So, what's your answer to that? Let me guess.

"That's stupid. I'm not tipping."

I dont understand!

Should waitresses and all other tipped staff be complaining to management about "such low wages"?

Not what I was talking about.

You deal 5 shifts a week? Get to deal 6 hrs per shift? All happy players who aren't complaining about the rake, Floormen, and lack of good chairs?

Couple of years ago, the Management at a local casino made several changes for the poker dealers. Net result: several dealers told me they were making $40-$50 less a shift.

How would you like to have one 40 minute down a day be at a Three Card Poker table where you will be lucky to get $5?

So what's your point again? Dealers make too much, but not as much as you?? Pretty entitled, are we?

You're making things up.

Dealers deserve whatever wage the market will bear.

My position, likewise.

Exactly. And dealers currently make exactly what the market bears. So whats your point again? That the market is wrong? and it should be less?

Your side keeps saying this, but you simply have no information to support it.

There is little to no correlation between table rake and dealer pay. Rake is determined as "the most money we can possible rake and still not lose players to other rooms" or "exactly as much as we're allowed to take by law."

Casinos don't work forward into a rake. They don't go, "Gee, the dealers are $12/hr after we pay overhead on them, and the square footage occupied is $x/foot, so lets charge $6, which by coincidence is exactly what everyone else charges! Astonishing luck!"

No, they work forward. They can get away with taking $6, so they do, and if the projections say the space can generate revenue, they put in the room, and if it makes more money than whatever else they could use the space for, they keep it. If they didn't lose customers at $7 or $8, they'd take that too.

They then pay you as little as humanly possible, because that's the nature of the beast. If you could be paid $0, they probably would. If they could rake $10, and make you pay them to deal, they would.

....and you wouldn't be the first dealer who had to pay to deal. They're out there.

So, please, demonstrate that casinos would have to raise rakes, or stop spouting nonsense. While you're at it, show me all the times that rake was increased a dollar and the dealers got more -- because, you know, rake is somehow tied to dealer pay.

Oh, wait, it's not.

Please identify where I've said dealers should make less money, and then we'll discuss it.