I can't point to where you are
"wrong".. I will say go back and read the first post I responded to and then read what you wrote after that. Hint: you said two completely different things (imo).

Either way, you have a right to your opinion.

Why does everyone always dodge my question .....? I'll post it again...

"What about the cocktail waitresses? Do you not tip them either if you don't toke dealers? If you play 40hrs a week and get 1 drink per 2 hrs, that is $4 a day in tokes to the waitress, $20 a week, $80 a month, $960 a year. Just curious....

Also, most cocktail waitresses in Vegas are union and make over $12 an hour already from their regular wages "

Cocktail waitresses get taxed a lot less too.

(I hope that's not too short of a reply)

I just find it funny when I play live and I see a guy not tipping dealers the entire night, yet when he goes to the bathroom he makes sure the guy on his left or right hands the waitress a dollar if he's gone. Or when he comes back and sees his new drink he will dart off across the room searching for her. lol

Ive noticed that players that stiff usually will still tip a cocktail waitress. I ignorantly tell myself that they understand that you're supposed to tip a waitress, but don't understand you're supposed to tip a dealer.

I was a dealer for 12 years and my dad dealt for almost 50 years, so it's natural that I tip.

But honestly, if others don't tip, it doesn't bother me. As long as they don't talk about it or tell others what to do.

If you don't like to tip, don't. But let others make that choice for themselves.

Good luck to the people promoting tipping and to the dealers who do a good job at their games. May you make more this year than the last.

What do you guys think about tipping $1 an hour in all games? 9 players = $9. That's a very good income on top of their wage(and employees at my local casino get medical/dental, 401k, etc).

It has the benefit of being consistent. No longer will there be variance in their tips received.

It's around $10 minimum wage here, + $9 tips, + benefits = very cushy.

I live in Washington State.

It's far from as uncommon as he makes it out to be. He seems to think the average poker game is 10-handed, gets limped at least 7 ways every pot, and that the average player is Chris Ferguson's grandma (not to mention that being a decent dealer who you know...deals, is some super-human feat that apparently never happens in his two dozen hands in an hour if you're very lucky world). I mean it's a guy who's made how many posts trying to argue the point that $6,000 isn't $6,000. Thread is laughable when you see guys on one side who absolutely refuse not to just champion a point.

For the record I think of all the games I play in about 35 hands an hour is typical. I've also counted (really not counted usually just remembered how many rotations it's made) and when nothing comes up it's usually north of 30 south of 40 with some obvious exceptions now and then.

To the dealer talking about getting stiffed, I agree. I don't stiff people in practice. I'm not happy with the tipping situation though. My response was to a guy talking about tipping in a jackpot spot and I do feel reasonable tips in those spots are almost a losing proposition. I'm not the best with words so maybe it wasn't clear but that's the only thing I've argued. You tip reasonable on big scores or in big games and you still feel like/seem to get looked at as a heel. It seems it'd be better to just keep the money.

One thing is they don't deal every hour they work but I agree with the basic concept.

I said basically the same thing though I'd be thrilled to just toss in a buck every other down to get them to what I feel is a competitive wage. I'd be happy to throw in a buck every down too. If it's short I'm cool with flipping in $5 every other down. Sad thing is my tipping practices exceed that by a very decent margin and I'm still considered cheap in the current culture (plus, as I've said, am out a large chunk of change annually). Something about that just doesn't seem to match up to the rest of reality to me.

I think you need to recheck your facts.

* Minimum wage in Washington is currently $8.67/hr, not the $10/hr you quoted.

* tips in Washington are usually split 85/15 with floor staff, and 30-40% of the remainder goes to taxes.

* Virtually no poker dealers in Washington qualify for benefits (even in the big rooms, non-tribal members are hired only to part-time positions, which is done specifically to avoid paying benefits).

That being said, I suggest you ask around: "If I cut your pay to just over minimum wage, are you going to keep giving me the same high level of service that I depend on to keep my daily income as high as possible?"

q/q

I keep waiting for someone here to take up your question, because cocktail servers generally make better money than dealers do. In rooms with a lot of "professional grinders" it's much more pronounced, because these guys have a major chip on their shoulder about tipping anything at all to the person who is dealing their game, but think nothing of throwing $5+ to the pretty girl who simply carries a drink over to the table.

My guess is that they are 100% aware that if they start stiffing the servers, they simply won't get served (which is true). But they feel like the dealer in the box is forced to serve them anyway, so they have a captive service worker who can't do anything about it if they decide to stop paying for their service. And they really, really, really hate the idea that the dealer in the box CAN reduce their service (and hence their hourly) if they keep looking for new ways to creatively stiff the poker staff.

q/q

I will mail you a blank check if you can point out where I used the phrase "Bay Area". This is your condition for the argument, not mine. I wouldn't have been talking about the Bay Area, since I've never been close to there. Maybe the situation is different where you play, and people don't Hollywood as much, fewer players see a flop, etc etc etc. Entirely possible, it's your area, you'd know better than I. Any game in this area I've ever seen wouldn't get 40 hands an hour for a low stakes Limit game. Too many people taking forever in hands, too many players getting to later streets.

Obvious backtrack. Your initial post made it sound like you averaged 22 a half. This is clearly impossible. I'm sure you have in fact cherry picked a handful of halves where you counted, and you've chosen to mention to us the ones where your number was up there.

I'm sure you think you're better and faster than other dealers, and that you don't waste time between hands. That's lovely. The problem with just taking your word for it is that every other dealer says the exact same thing. They're the best, and everyone else sucks. The bottom line is that the players will always have more to do with the number of hands dealt out than the dealer will, and you can't jump from 30-35 to 44 simply by saving a couple of seconds here and there on your pitch, your between hand routine, etc.

This is just a ridiculous post which only arises because people in this thread don't like me. Had it been anyone else pointing out that 44 hands an hour is a joke, they'd have been +1'ed through the roof. But, I've bashed people for being cheap and lying, so people feel the need to come after me. It's quite fine, since none of you are relevant enough for me to ever care what you think, but you can't just make stuff up. I don't live in a "two dozen hands an hour if you're lucky" world. Most NL games can easily run at 30/hph, and closer to 35 with a good dealer and players who keep the game flowing. You've seen me say this many times. But, no one's averaging 44 and you know it. I have yet to be at a game where this is the case. He made a silly claim and backtracked from it, as you can clearly see. As far as the $6000, sorry, you guys can play pretend all you want, but there's no one here and no one I've seen who has increased their 1/2 winrate this amount (and remember, this started when the Palimax claimed $10,000-$12000) simply by avoiding tipping the token $1 here and there.

I would think dealers would hate it, $9 an hour isn't even remotely close to what they now make in tips.

Having read the recent contributions to this thread, I would also like to revisit one other recurring theme: the idea that poker dealers are "semi-skilled workers", "on par with forklift drivers", etc.

That comparison is false for a number of reasons.

A poker dealer handles tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars in fast-paced transactions every day. They do it in a high-pressure environment, under constant surveillance, with players splashing chips, throwing cards, insulting each other, getting drunk and surly, conducting themselves in many cases like overgrown children, all while teaching and training many players who barely know anything about the conventions of live poker, and trying to maintain a pleasant, fast-paced environment that will make for an enjoyable game that people will want to return to again and again.

That is one hell of a skillset, and it is not easily replaceable.

A poker dealer is one part cash-handling machine, one part circus ringmaster, one part babysitter, and one part cat-herder. The job requires insane levels of focus, attention to detail, and huge "soft skills" for dealing with difficult and frequently-abusive customers. It is a high-stress, fast-paced, high-customer-interaction position upon which the success or failure of a room greatly depends.

Forget the discussion about pay for a moment, let's just talk about basic respect.

This is a much tougher job than most players think it is, and the pool of qualified applicants is much smaller than most here seem to realize. You don't become a truly good poker dealer by taking a two week course. It takes years.


q/q

There are things that poker dealers do when not tipped even tho any 1 of these things could get them fired.
Pitching cards hard at knuckles
Not dealing the cards all the way to the player
Not pushing the pot all the way to the player

In real poker cities these things would not be done because dealers are more professional and know they would get fired but in the room I play I see these things happen.

note: I do tip, just not on the tiny pots like $10-$15 in 1/2nl where half the money is mine and I got abused for a few $'s in rake and bbj on that tiny profit already.

Interesting, never thought of anyone doing this before, primarily because so many players have their hands off the table all the time playing with a cellphone, eating etc.

Just think how upset dealers would be if they were expected to tip everyone everywhere they go that felt they didnt make enough money at work the way they expect us to pay them cuz theyre strugglin. Guess what guys. People are strugglin everywhere, you should feel lucky people give you THEIR money out of THEIR pocket when you dont do the same instead of giving people crappy service when you dont get the tip you "expect"

The entitlement issues of people are amazing. Dealers when it comes to tipping is truly a "hooray for me and screw you" idea

Huh? Who does this? Report them.

In my experience, the guy complaining about this usually the same guy who mucks his hand away from the dealer and stacks his bets as far away as possible, just to hurt the dealer's back.

Can't speak to your room, but maybe you should find a better place to play.

I can, however, tell you that the dealer in the box has just about 100% control over the pace of the game, which means they directly control your hourly rate. That's far more important to real poker players than the petty annoyances you listed above.

Nobody's "abusing" you.

The business is offering a service with a specific fee-structure, and you are choosing to utilize their services at that price.


q/q

How about when they rake it and take bbj with no flop. Yes, that is abuse.

Again: they are offering a service at a specific price, and you are choosing to voluntarily purchase it.

As for the BBJ preflop: that's a management decision that has its pro's and con's -- the biggest pro is that it eliminates freerolling and collusion, which protects jackpots for the honest players. Second biggest pro: it's annoys the nits Biggest con: it slows down the game (especially blue-chip games). But whatever, you are free to play anywhere you like. Go elsewhere if you don't like the game where you're at now.

But again, nobody's forcing you to play anywhere. You are choosing to play there at the published fee structure. Feel free to go elsewhere anytime. Nobody's robbing or abusing anybody, you are a voluntary customer in their business.

q/q

Yep, and the dealers are voluntarily taking these jobs as well and not getting tips at times is also part of it. Yet they sure feel "abused"

This is always a one-sided topic. hooray for the dealrs, eff the players

Same ol, same ol

Like I said believe what you want. I've had 16 hand downs, but it's usually during a playoff game where I have to direct each action.

NH, sir . . . I've made this point many times.