If I tip when I'm running well and don't tip when I'm running bad, but the sum total of what I tip (on average) is the same as someone who just tips evenly, I'm a moron?

If good cards come eventually, why am I a moron for not adopting the tip-evenly-every-time model?

You're presumably tipping because of the good fortune of being up significantly, not simply because you were dealt a premium starting hand.

If someone is of the mindset that the dealer controls what hands they get, and they are going to tip based on their preflop starting hand, then they're a moron, yes.

That's pretty different from what you said before.

There's a big difference between tipping when you get good cards or run good, and believing that the dealer had something to do with it.

I certainly tip more when I'm running good, despite knowing the robot that passes out the cards had nothing to do with it.

Yes, clearly.

Would be tough for two statements to be more different! What was I thinking .....

Now, let's argue about this for two hours

I'll never get upset with a player who berates me for giving them bad cards, as long as they "reward" me for giving them good cards.

I like the players who think I'm the reason that ace beat them on the river. It's illogical, but they are normally the ones who over tip when they get a lucky card.

Since the casino pays us next to nothing, you tip us so we don't slow the game down to 10, or less, hands per hour.

TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service.

Again, you're much clearer in your follow-up post.

There's a big differencing between rewarding the dealer when you have good cards, and rewarding the dealer because you believe he influences the cards.

In your first post (on this particular sub-topic), you made no reference to tipping the dealer because you believe he's some sort of voodoo psychic whom tipping increases your chance of getting aces again. I, like you, believe, without a doubt, that anyone who thinks that is a moron.

...but tipping the dealer because you happened to get good cards is just when some people like to do their tipping. [Again, I can't tip ever if I'm getting dealt J3o every hand.]

No. We are talking about a grinder. He is not going to give the excess to a waitress. Or blow it on a table game.


You only think $25/hr goes off the table? Also, we are talking about one player at the table.


Why? Again, tell George where the $8000 he did not tip goes. It somehow leaves his stack?


Gee, maybe if they did not tip, they would become 'winners'.

You still have not shown that if a full time grinder stopped tipping, he would not show a $6K improvement at the end of the year.

I hope you know that is not where it came from.

More words to remember from the dealer who gives most of you a black eye in this thread.
A backronym. Untrue.

In tips. We all know another $100+ leaves the table in rake/time.

The argument the other side makes is that he'd occasionally stack it off. They make no concession that occasionally he wins $x more from another opponent who had a larger stack - and that for a winning player, this would happen more often that stacking off. ...and that potentially his opponents had more money to win from them, since they too weren't putting their share of $25/hr in a separate box.

Ethics aside, they deny the simple math. $'s removed are removed.

It's silly, and they can't. A winning grinder who tips 6k/year would have, roughly, 6k more at the end of the year if he didn't tip, and the dealers (together) at his casino would have 6k less to spread between them. He would occasionally lose some bigger pots (with more in his stack), and he would sometimes win bigger pots (with more in his stack to cover).

At minimum, he would play fewer hours as he would reach his goals more often. But time, of course, has a value too.

Ethics aside, they deny the simple math. $'s removed are removed.

Based on that statement right there, I wouldn't tip you at all. Try slowing the game down like that and see how long you last as a dealer. That is a horrible attitude.

He doesn't care.

You can only use him as an object lesson for other dealers and as evidence to educate players as to what some of the people fortunate enough to have dealing jobs think about their customers.

I was questioning that only $25 went off in tips. I forgot that large portions of the country play at a leisurely pace. I am used to more like $40/hr going off in tips.

And $200/hr in drop (welcome to rainy California).

Sigh. Apparently I was misunderstood. Let me explain.

The players tip us at the end of a hand. Our incentive to become faster/better dealers is that we will make more money that way. More hands = more tips.

Somebody asked *why* players tip dealers. If we were not tipped, and worked on $4-$8 an hour (typically what a casino pays), there is no incentive to deal quickly. You would get the quality of workers any minimum wage job gets.

I used the TIPS acronym for irony.

Knock the chip off your shoulder, pal. This isn't a discussion of work ethic. It's just an answer as to why players tip dealers.

You are correct. Tipping when someone wins a hand has just become the norm. One guy I play with also feels how many hands he wins should be the deciding factor in how much he tips each dealer. So he gives them a tip as they get up from the table instead.

Your opinion on worth ethic is sufficiently documented in this thread already.

You are dealing at an acceptable pace not only for tips for yourself but so the casino makes more money by you getting out the acceptable amount of hands.

If you start dealing half speed because people are not tipping(believe me I have seen this many times when dealers get nothing 4 or 5 hands in a row from the table) and its brought to the attention of management then you will find yourself out of a job.

Its the difference between the casino making up to $150 per hour on that table and only $75 or less.

Also most of the auto shufflers count how many hands are being dealt by each dealer as they clock in on each table they sit.
So if this started happing too often with slowing down the game then your hands per hour count will suffer and you could be getting fired or written up.

Ok, for the slower folks here, I'll explain again.

Somebody asked WHY players tip dealers. Nothing was said in a threatening way about slowing a game down if the table is full of stiffs. If casino workers were paid minimum wage, you get minimum wage service. The reason you tip is for better service. Do you understand? I can't really explain it at a more elementary level.

Your statements are only true if you believe that competent dealers can't be found for less.

I understand that the four year degree and two years of post-graduate work required for the job reduces the pool of potential dealers greatly, but I'm sure we'd find someone willing to work for less.

I've never been in a poker room where someone wasn't on a wait list to be a dealer.

---

Also, as always, you forget that our agreement is between us and the casino, not us and the dealer. We, as a table, already pay $120/hour for poker to be dealt to us. We don't pay for minimum wage service, even before we tip.

---

"Stiffs." $120/hr stiffs.

Exactly. Because it's a fairly easy job that pays quite fell for the education/work required.

AGAIN, someone asked *WHY* you tip dealers. The answer is because if it were a minimum wage job, you'd get the enthusiasm of a gas station cashier.

I can name more people than I could count who are solid, knowledgeable poker players who have spent more than their share of time and excess money at table games.

Please explain, in all your years of infinite wisdom, how I would prove this. Perhaps I have a videotape of all the sessions of every single players poker life in my back pocket? How is either of us supposed to prove the other wrong here? What if I tell you that you can't prove that they would have the $6000?

In tips. Could be more than $25, but not much more. Figure 30 hands an hour, it'd be $25 if the average tip were just under $1 per hand, could be more like $35 or near $40 if table was generous.

Some of the dealers ITT should look into the bar games we have in Wyoming. I've seen dealers pull down $800-$1200 in a night dealing 1/2. There is far more than $25/hr coming off our tables. At the 5/5 and 5/10 the smallest chip is a $5 and that's the standard "tip".

Most of the bars in our town have 1-3 people dealing. They aren't paid a wage and cannot be an employee of the establishment. The establishment cannot profit from the game, so no rake or drop. This leads to larger than normal tipping. "Social" games are legal in Wyoming so home games, poker clubs and bar games are increasing.

Again,you keep coming up with you hypothetical players who will squander money and refuse to answer the question.


Give it a rest. You still haven't shown how a steady player who does not tip (given an estimate of $6000 savings) would fail to pocket roughly that amount at the end of the year. Because you can't. Just tell George why he won't have an addition $6000 at the end of the year. He doesn't shoot craps. He doesn't over tip waitresses. Explain to him where the $6000 is going to go.

In
your
infinite
wisdom.

As I mentioned in a later post, I am used to much faster conditions. 40+ hands/hr. And so $40/hr off the table to the dealers. Even the mediocre dealers.

I have never seen in all my years 40 hands/hour being dealt in live NL.
If I ever did I would quickly find a new game because that game would suck big time.
The only way its possible is if the table is super tight and nothing goes past flop.