Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt2112
We have a player in my room who does this from time to time. This is a player who likes to straddle anywhere from $25 to $100 on a $1-2 NL table on every hand and he tips black chips to the servers who bring him a drink. There have been times at my table when he loses a big pot, sees the winner throw me a buck or two for a tip, and will then toss me $10 for losing the pot because he thinks I wasn't tipped enough by the winner.
If he thinks walking a beer over and putting it in front of him is worth $100, then he should tip you $100 for dealing a hand and pushing a big pot - regardless to whom.
Like I said before, when I'm playing HU and it's against what you consider a stiff and there is a worthy dealer in the box (e.g., someone who can deal mixed-TD efficiently without getting stressed or confused), then I pick up the slack for the other player but I do it in a way that isn't disrespectful to the other player.
I want to keep the dealer happy because he or she deserves appropriate compensation and I want my opponent happy and it's just a plain dick move to attempt to shame a person in that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL
Wrong. Absolutely wrong. Try again.
Even going by rake, my statement stands. You get what you pay for.
What do you think rake pays for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL
More wrong. You are consistent.
I was making a economic generalization (higher pay attracts a higher quality of worker). You then go to a specific argument that some of the highering people suck. Sure some do. Some are excellent. The generalization still stands though.
Also, you are proving my point about rake. Maybe you haven't made the association, but rake pays the salaries of the back office people in a poker room (such as the people who hire dealers). If you think the people who hire dealers are generally incompetent then you think the pay should be higher for them so you could get a higher quality person in those positions. Where do you think that extra pay comes from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL
Ok. Let me go on the record by saying that I would love to live in a world where dealers are paid a decent wage and those are rare and only go to the absolute best dealers in uncommon situations. I 100% wish casinos paid dealers more and players had to tip less.
That said, how does that happen?
Let's make you are a poker room manager. You decide you want to pay your dealers more and tell players that tipping isn't expected.
Where do you think the money to pay your dealers more comes from?
It is going toncome from the rake. You will have to increase the rake you take from the game to pay your dealers extra.
Now what is going to happen after that?
Players who are unaware of your change are still going to tip dealers every hand because that is what they do in every other casino they have ever played in. However, players who are aware of the increased rake are going to play elsewhere. Why are they going to pay increased rake when they can play elsewhere and pay less? A casino increasing it's rake to pay its dealers more is literally going to be driving its customers to their competition through increased rake and a decent portion of the player population will still tip because it is rote. They don't think about it.
I would love to live in an ideal world. I wish i had superpowers and could fly, be invisible, and regenerate from wounds, point is, we don't. We have to live in a world that actually exists. In this real world, you get what you pay for. That is just basic economics.
This is all cute.
I see you're in a stage in life where you think higher costs for services provided to consumers automatically mean they are getting better/more for their money and there's not a living soul walking in America that is overpaid for the job they perform.
You also seem to think that when a cardroom raises the rakes that the increased rake goes to pay salaried cardroom employees and not the majority of it going to the casino while a few peanuts go to staff.
Were you around (20 or so years ago) when Becky raised rakes exorbitantly for the WSOP? Guess who got all that money? We know it wasn't the dealers, floor, management, or other staff based on this and other forums and the yells from the mountaintops. And us players got a worse experience with all the break-in dealers.
But I'll touch on your scenario where rakes would be raised to compensate for dealer pay yet people would still tip anyway.
No. Dealer tips would not be allowed. That means if someone ignores the no tipping signs and tips, the dealer hands it back and says he or she is not allowed to accept tips. If the player insists, then the dealer insists that he or she cannot accept tips or their job is at risk. This is not rocket science for players to figure out.
Also, raked games should all be changed to time games. Yeah, it's harder to "put it past" the players but everyone would know how much they're paying from the outset and if they're getting good value for the cost.