You can literally stand up from the table at any time to take a walk and not lose your job. If a dealer gets up they lose their job. Come on, it’s not that hard.

I love good dealers and in my previous life of playing a lot of hours of live poker at Borg had built a good rapport with the vast majority of them.

I'm very likely to be in top 10% of tippers for someone who is actively trying to win at the tables. I have no issue with dealers making $60K+ a year while paying taxes as if they make $20K.

In fact, I think the very best dealers should clear over $100K a year (for a full time dealer). I tried to stiff terrible dealers that made mistakes that cost me thousands of real dollars over the years but it seems that I'm incapable of not throwing a tip so I gave up.

What I'm trying to say is I don't have an agenda against dealers, but in my opinion the only people who think their job is really stressful are the dealers themselves.

Trying to push $50M project that's blown past all the deadlines to production while being hounded by multiple execs and irate clients (I have 7 bosses, Mike!) for months is stressful.
Doing open heart surgery is stressful.

Being yelled at by room-temperature IQ individuals once in a while is not where it's at.

It could be argued that dealing is one of the least stressful jobs that doesn't require formal education for the amount of compensation it could potentially provide.

Getting hit on (often aggressively and disgustingly) by people who are responsible for compensating you is, in fact, stressful. It's kind of the reason why sexual harassment in the workplace isn't allowed and all. Having people who compensate you scream at you and blame you for random misfortune is also stressful.

Also, having to relentlessly reach for chips and cards out of reach is, in fact, stressful physically.

LOL at comparing dealing to managing 50M projects or being a heart surgeon. Those people are significantly significantly compensated for those (admittedly huge) stress levels.

Yep, the lack of empathy by some here is truly amazing. Just because you aren't making billion dollar or life and death decisions does not mean you don't feel stress on the job.

Whether a dealer's job is stressful or not is100% in the dealer's perception, not any of ours. Ask anyone in a public facing industry, whether they are a cashier at Walmart, a hotel clerk, a waiter, etc and they will tell you that dealing with the public can be very stressful. Most customers will be neutral, some will be wonderful and make your day, and a few will make you miserable and potentially put your job and income at risk.

No, it's not that hard. If a dealer needs to walk anytime they encounter a player crying about beats, luck or what have you, then he or she needs another job. If a professional player needs to walk anytime they encounter a player crying about beats, luck or what have you, then he or she needs another job. If a professional server needs to walk anytime they encounter a diner crying about the wait, the food, or what have you, then he or she needs another job.

It's all relative for sure. IMO the best Dealers are the ones who just lay it out there point blank without necessarily pointing fingers unless unavoidable. As well, a Dealer must have some pretty good skills to feel comfortable taking control of a table that way lest the Regs eat them alive.

Similar to a Bartender, there's a line between customer and personal. While some may think that the line is easy to walk, every human has a different level of emotions. So what may be easy for one person to block is 'stabbing' for another.

Experience is huge. Every poker player is devastated the first time AA gets cracked, but each time you see/experience it the less emotion 'should' be attached.

What this all has to do with tipping? I lost my way quite a few posts ago.

Do 'a lot' of people have the physical coordination and mental capabilities to deal? Yes, I think so. But as with all professions, how many of those folks can develop (and sustain) the proficiency needed to lock it in as a job, much more so as a career? I'm here to say far few.

Stress is an interesting emotion, I truly think that both Project Managers and Dealers can feel the same amount of stress given the same emotional attachment to the task. That statement could go pretty deep with the most common comparison being that your typical PM would laugh away the stress of dealing/table banter. But my counter would be that without the same amount of emotional investment to the task you can't compare the two.

Could a Dealer be a great PM? Perhaps. But most folks want to suggest that just because the complexities of a project are 'way beyond' those required for dealing that the opportunity for, and 'amount of', stress is therefore higher. I don't necessarily agree with that.

If someone doesn't care about their task, how can there be stress? How can you assume that one person cares more than another?

I truly believe that stress is a function of the amount of invested emotion and how 'outside' factors my be pushing the buttons of said emotion. Even if we try to put ourselves in the shoes of others we can't completely capture the emotion of another person. A two foot putt in golf is just that .. two feet. But what's riding on a make or miss carries emotion that only the person standing over the ball can carry. GL

You might not "need to walk" but yes it adds significant stress when for one, the person who is blaming you for random occurrences is impacting your actual pay. Then it gets amplified when they then also relentlessly are barking at you because they think you are incompetent because you filled a gutshot against their straight. For example if there are side pots and they start yammering out numbers at you while you are trying to create the side pots, that adds difficulty and stress to the job, as well as slowing down the game and increasing chances for actual errors, which then further impacts your actual pay.

Also, answer's post is fantastic, accurate, and everyone should read/internalize it. The putt is a great example. If I am standing over a 5 foot putt to beat my brother in golf, which I've done only 3 or 4 times in the last 20 years, I would feel a ton of anxiety and stress, even though it would be very easy for an outsider to say, who cares it is some random donk playing on a random golf course and will either shoot 85 or 86, who gives a ****.

Players are not responsible for compensating a dealer. At the end of the day, tips are voluntary. Trying to paint this as employer/employee is being disingenuous.

And yes, dealing places physical stress on the body. No one said it doesn't.


Again, speaking at least for myself, I never said the job doesn't have any stress.

Dealers are human and even the best make mistakes. It's reasonable to be stressed when it happens in a big pot. I had a stellar dealer make a mistake that cost me a good amount of money. I brushed it off because the mistake could have easily had the opposite effect. I gave him his usual $25 for the down - one of the few dealers in multiple states that get at least that, regardless if they push me a pot or not. He didn't want it, which I'm sure added more stress, so I pulled him aside and explained the situation and how much I value what he does and insisted he accept it.

Sure, and if you're getting stressed over rude people blaming you for the random luck of the turn of a card, it's time to find a new occupation because that's a daily occurrence on the job.

If a doctor finds it stressful to constantly deal with ill people, then he or she should find a different job - I've known a couple of doctors who have done exactly this.

Nope, this response is disingenous. Dealers in fact receive the large majority of their payment directly from players, just like servers do, regardless of the voluntariness of the tips. And the same would apply there, it is a much tougher spot for a server when some lecher is hitting on them than it is, say, a person who works in a clothing store not on commission. Same for a dealer.

And the example given placed MUCH MORE physical stress on the dealer's body, yet you pooh pooh'd it as something that shouldn't add stress.

Yes Answer is finally posting the reality. Reality is there are no stress filled or stress free jobs. It is combination of the person and multi facets of the job. People saying look at a heart surgeon; that is stress. Well ask a good one. They will likely say it is not. They are trained and prepared. Often will say it is fun.

Some say a assembly line job putting screw A into hole X 400 times a day is stress free. But for me I would take the 50mil late over cost PM all day long over any assembly line job. I am an adrenaline Junkie and love working in an emergent crisis. Answering to 7 bosses about project costs and delays never bothered me if I had the answers. My biggest stress in those situations was fighting the urge to say “I F’ING TOLD YOU this was going to happen now get the H out of the way do I can fix it”. It that is me

The point is any job can be very stressful to a certain person on any or every given day. The job doesn’t cause or have stress attached to it. Persons response to situations internally cause stress not a job.

So what?

Are you asserting that a person not working on tips getting hit on at their job is different than a dealer getting hit on?

I don't know what games you play in where hot dealers are hit on by every single male at the table for every moment of the day that they would go broke for being assertive, but I haven't seen it to any extent like that.

I've seen hot dealers put a lecher in their place many times. The worst that happened is that person stiffed and she got even more from the other players at the table for her standing up for herself.

I mean your chivalry is commendable, but it's bordering on being sexist.

Are you saying physical stress should cause emotional stress? Any dealer who thinks their job has ridiculous amounts of physical stress should go and roof some houses in the summer or tile some floors for half the pay. Like other occupations, if you're not physically fit enough to handle the physical stress, you need to find another occupation.

Yes. A good, well-equipped and trained dealer knows how to manage a table and the idiots that go along with it. If they are not good at this, then of course it will be stressful.

Being a good dealer isn't just being able to pitch cards, read hands, manage money - you have to manage several personalities at once. That, in and of itself, isn't stressful - just like performing routine bypass surgery isn't stressful if you're good at it.

So what is that so your point about the players not providing compensation just b/c tips are voluntary is BS.

And absolutely it is different if you are getting tipped vs if you are not getting tipped. Obviously. Just like a co-worker hitting on you at work is bad but exponentially worse if it is your boss.

Also please direct me to the post where I said that "every hot dealer is hit on by every male at the table", stop building asinine strawmen. Also standing up for yourself can also be seen as "no fun" or "snobby" or "stuck up" or "rude" or "bitchy" or etc., resulting in less overall tips. Again it can also slow the game down especially if the floor has to be called, resulting in less overall tips. It doesn't have to result in literally zero tips or the dealer "going broke" for some dipshit's behavior to be placing undue emotional stress on a person.

And I'm the sexist one, but you're the one auto-assuming the gender and orientation of the people involved.

Are you saying a person intentionally causing you physical pain isn't emotionally stressful? And now we are equating someone intentionally causing pain with the physical toll of roofing jobs? Jesus dude, you are really doing some ridiculous doubling down and whataboutism.

You are really doubling down on this aren't you? I don't care if you are the world's finest thoracic surgeon and have performed a procedure tens of thousands of times there is still the stress of one wrong slip and their patient is dead and their career is potentially over. That would be pretty stressful.

Every job has stress built in whether you think so or not.

You’re missing the point. The dealer and the server can’t walk away, the player can. I’m not even talking about leaving for the night, I’m talking about standing up to take a piss or go for a walk to clear your head.

i think this is the case for most jobs is it not? you can't just get up and leave whenever you please, also pretty sure the dealers likewise can also get up and take a walk when they are not on the clock either

terrible, terrible analogy

When I had a 9-5 office job, I could step away from my desk for a few minutes whenever I wanted. Obviously I couldn't abuse this, but if I had a frustrating call with a client and wanted 5 minutes to clear my head that was my prerogative.

As a dealer, if I get frustrated, I have to suck it up and wait for the push.

@rickroll not sure what part you think is a terrible analogy, or what part you think is an analogy at all, but the point your making only strengthens what I said. Poker “pro” playing a cash game is the only job where there is no penalty for taking a break. Tourney is a little different but you can still take a walk if you want to.

And when a dealer is on break… well they are on break, so idk why you’re even bringing that up.

yeah i get that, it sucks but there's a ton of careers where you can't just take five whenever

look, i'm on the "dealer's side" of this argument, i think it's a legit profession that is necessary (we'd all hate e-poker tables) and should be compensated well to earn a living wage so we're dealing with cheerful people who are competent at the tables and not a revolving door of people you'd be afraid of if they were loitering in the parking lot

i don't like how it happens to be that a lot of that wage comes from the fact that people are a bit joyous with each win and often inebriated slightly (not talking poker just pits in general) and it's silly that you'd tip on a win but not on a loss, dealer did the same performance either way

but... my point was it's absurd to compare the options available to someone in the midst of working on the clock vs someone who isn't on the clock and spending some of their recreation time at the tables - this just undermines and destroys all arguments because you're stating that your work time should be as comfy as everyone's leisure time and this isn't the case for anyone and undermines your entire argument with tones of irrational entitlement

again, i'm pro dealer, but having come back home i'm legit getting anxiety over whom to tip and how much after never ever having that be a thing in asia and most of the dealers over there were pretty awesome so long as either they spoke english or you knew their language - i've heard horror stories of grumpy dealers sizing up every tip and honestly that's something i'm really not looking forward to dealing with is wondering how much to tip at the end of each pot thinking how upset the guy pitching the cards is because he can't get up and take a walk like i can right now if wanted to do so

would overwhelmingly prefer everyone ships a standard amount every hour (would be pro-rated if you leave early or sat late) or they just increased the rake and paid you guys appropriately

You must have missed the part where we were comparing pro players (a job) to a dealer (a job). And the guy I was responding to specifically said that a pro player can’t get up from the table, which is false.

But I agree with the last sentiment, I think tipping culture is bad. It should just be 20-30 per hour + benefits. Of course a lot of dealers don’t want that because they make more.

oh, i feel very stupid now

sorry

but for real, i hate this phrase because it gives a nervous wreck woody allenesqe rube image and i almost never use - but it legit gives me anxiety being back in the us and tipping

like last month i picked up a pizza for my brother when i told him i thought it was weird their machine at the counter forced me to choose or decline a tip for picking up a pizza and you need to do it right in front of the cashier and this is a sit down with staff, only pickups pay at counter and they were shocked i didn't tip 20% because apparently that's a thing whereas the only reason i brought it up was i felt it was outlandish they even asked for a tip for pickup - like i get it when the bill is $17 and you hand a 20 as that's literally easier for me but now i need to take an extra step that doesn't reduce change etc

it's been a rough adjustment and definitely worried about under/over tipping at the tables once covid breaks or i stop being a rona nit - whichever comes first

Jesus... I specifically mentioned, several times already, where a dealer's job is stressful. Maybe you have me confused for someone else?

Being hit on, being called names, having to listen to bad beats, are every day occurrences in dealing cards. If that causes job stress, then you're in the wrong line of work.

This is also why I specifically said routine bypass surgery; that is, a bypass surgery with no major complications. When my father's sutures opened up on his heart 16 hours after a successful bypass surgery and the surgeon had to drive down at 3am to do an emergency open heart surgery and then tell us that he's 50/50 to live after the surgery due to hypotension, I'm sure he was stressed.

They can, but I'm not going to go down that route.

The actual point is if you can't handle rude idiots at the table, then go get a different job. That holds true for the dealer and the player. If a doctor can't handle dealing with ill people, then get a different job.

A player is neither a coworker nor a boss. I'm sure this is what employers who employ tipped employees would like you to think so you'll subsidize their compensation without much effort on their part, but it's nothing close to that.

You're the one implying that they wouldn't be able to make a living if they are assertive with people that cross the line. That's nonsense.

Most creepers are like:

"Here's a green chip for ya little honey. You remind me of my ex-wife before she split with half my money."

Dealer: "At least she left you half; I'm not that nice [smile]."

Everyone laughed; he got checked - game went on unfettered.



Contrast that to:

"[tosses a check from a rack of black; dealer gives undivided thanks] You can have the whole rack if you come back to my room after your shift, ah hahaha."

Dealer: "That might be the oldest profession, but it is not my profession."

That elicited a few of us to give him shiit and tell him where the BunnyRanch is located. He did get quiet and then leave 5 minutes later, probably for feeling like an idiot and ass**** for basically leveling her down to a prostitute just because she's sexy and accepts tips, but sometimes baller CEO's buzzing on a few drinks need life lessons they can't learn in the boardroom.

If I can go without his donations, that were far larger than hers for who knows how long he intended to stay and play, then I'm sure she was fine, too, for the last 10 minutes of her down.

Fukk outta here with that woke bullshit as a lame backpedal.

The first mention of a dealer being hit on and the ensuing discourse that followed which lead to you whiteknighting was specifically, "an attractive female dealer," not "attractive dealer."


What person is causing physical pain? The person that won't push in their cards or chips? If so, easy. Just wait for the player to push the chips in - draw him or her a line if need be.

Once the other players realize the game won't move forward until the other player submits, the other players will push them in and pressure the player to stop ****ing around.

Yeah, yeah, I know, "but then this dealer will never get tipped again and will become emaciated and die." Nope, not from what I've seen.

You are wrong, but that never stops anyone else, so carry on, I don't give a good goddamn anymore.