Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2018, 04:48 AM   #8351
seat
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 20
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

He's not lieing about that 90k at prairie meadows. ive played there and other casinos in iowa. people tip 1-2 even on small pots it seems, EVERY POT. bigger pots they tip 5 bucks or more. they are dealing 20-30 hands an hour. do the math. thats about $30-40 hr. i wouldn't doubt they make that much at all. 90k might be streching it but most around here make pretty decent money.
i think tips are higher in iowa because rake is actually pretty low. they only rake like %10 and $3 max. they also comp you a dollar an hour in some rooms.
seat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 01:14 PM   #8352
Lord_Crispen
adept
 
Lord_Crispen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: unknown
Posts: 820
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by football0020 View Post
There's a difference between telling strangers on the internet what I make and telling regular players who I deal to multiple nights a week what I make.
Not sure how you don't see the connection. There isn't a poker player in the world that is going to read any information anywhere and think "Those folks make too much for what they're doing" when they inevitably compare it to working at a fast food place. You say strangers on the internet, and yes, you're mostly anonymous here, but the information ends up being out there and it does get to some of the players around the country, and some of those players tell other players, etc.


At this point, you'll probably say you don't care, but if I could somehow send your posts to a few people in your room, I don't think you'd be happy with me. In a sense, that's what you're doing to all of us, inadvertently.


And no, I don't think that we're overpaid. I do think that the average poker player BELIEVES we are overpaid and I can see how they might think that.
Lord_Crispen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 01:17 PM   #8353
Lord_Crispen
adept
 
Lord_Crispen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: unknown
Posts: 820
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seat View Post
people tip 1-2 even on small pots it seems, EVERY POT. bigger pots they tip 5 bucks or more. they are dealing 20-30 hands an hour. do the math. thats about $30-40 hr.
I'm sure on a busy night, this dealer makes an amount that can easily be extrapolated to hit 90K a year. I'm sure on a slow day, you can easily extrapolate his yearly salary to 20K a year. The final amount lies somewhere between. There might be 5 or 6 days a year where a dealer deals 8 hours straight in the manner by which you're doing your math. Ask that dealer how much he just made on that dead spread next time he pushes into your table.
Lord_Crispen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 02:34 PM   #8354
CupOfSalt
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 199
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkpoker10 View Post
Hey all, just wondering if I should tip when I win a pot that I raise over limpers and get all folds before a flop. Example- at 1-2 one or two limpers, I raise pre and take down say a 5 or 7 dollar pot? Just wondering if people tip a dollar here. Iíve been tipping in these spots but wondering if I should limit to flood where we see afa flop? Thanks
Some do, some don't. We really appreciate the guys that always a tip a buck, even on pots like this.

I've had tables/downs where I literally put out maybe 4 or 5 flops for the entire 30 minutes. The action kept going Raise, fold, fold, fold fold, rinse repeat. Super tight tables, no action.

If the dealer is good and is getting out hands, then why not throw him a buck?
CupOfSalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 06:16 AM   #8355
borg23
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8,169
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

If the game is dirt and the dealer is good I'll tip every 2-3 blind steals but I won't be in that game long
borg23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 07:47 PM   #8356
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 12,703
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
If the game is dirt and the dealer is good I'll tip every 2-3 blind steals but I won't be in that game long
Agreed. In particular, I definitely tip a good dealer on the second blind steal in a row if it happens to me.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 08:53 AM   #8357
answer20
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 6,345
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

It is amazing (really not) on how different tips are when the dealing 'execution' is basically the same. I've been regularly sitting in Seat 1 lately and been observing the toke boxes, which conveniently have a clear window in them from top to bottom, as they come and go and there's a vast difference in the tips when I view the Dealers as equally skilled.

$90K a year? Let's just say a Dealer gets $20K a year in base salary. They now need $1350 a week in tips ($270 per day/5 day week) to get there. Impossible? No, but improbable? Yes?

In a certainly unique/rare gesture I saw a 4-green tip cross the table in a 2/5 PLO game where a Player won a 3-way Flop all-in and held 'to get him back to even' at about $3k. The Dealers love to try to figure out how many PLO downs they will get during their shift as it can make or break their day. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 05:58 AM   #8358
spring83
Jack of all trades
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,285
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I think the better Canterbury Park dealers can make near that number. There are always games (no competition anywhere near), they are almost only dealing limit games (way more hands per hour), and 90-95% of players tip every hand ($1-3 per hand, average of 1.25 or more). They do have to deal some other games and tournaments, but I bet they do pretty well. See some of the same dealers there I used to see 15 years ago.
spring83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 06:30 AM   #8359
ABCforME
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 74
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Just thinking of all the entitled dealers around the U.S. who expect tips for doing absolutely nothing boils my blood. How is dealing cards a middle class profession? Grrrr. The porters who clean up food are working twice as hard as you and they always smile and say a sincere thank you when given their only buck of the day.

I am enacting a new policy of only tipping fast dealers, dealers who encourage straddling/coddle the fish, and pretty young women. $1 and thatís it.
ABCforME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 07:17 AM   #8360
ABCforME
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 74
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Arguments that dealers are expecting a livable wage and thus it is wrong or rude to stiff them also fall on my deaf ears. Retail workers who have their hours cut in half and no longer get health insurance were expecting a living wage too. Company men who work for a business for twenty years then are fired right before getting a pension bump were expecting that too. Boohoo the world isn’t fair to anyone.

If you are providing a true service, e.g. while as a waitress really making me feel taken care of when I eat, genuinely being nice to me, keeping my water non-stop filled then yes you are working for a well-deserved tip and providing an unspoken service. If you are sitting in a seat pitching cards then no I am not giving you money for nothing.

And yes people tip to feel good about themselves or to make sure no one else thinks they are cheap.
ABCforME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 10:24 AM   #8361
football0020
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 129
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Found the newest troll, let's see how many posts people engage this one for.
football0020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 02:24 PM   #8362
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 12,703
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCforME View Post
Just thinking of all the entitled dealers around the U.S. who expect tips for doing absolutely nothing boils my blood.
Where are these dealers that expect to be tipped while on dead spreads? We don't have any of them on the east coast of the US.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2018, 06:51 PM   #8363
Alpha Fish
veteran
 
Alpha Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,375
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I throw dealers that I like a redbird here and there on deadspreads, but it's probably not common enough for it to be expected
Alpha Fish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 04:38 PM   #8364
Suit
Pooh-Bah
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,078
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCforME View Post
Just thinking of all the entitled dealers around the U.S. who expect tips for doing absolutely nothing boils my blood. How is dealing cards a middle class profession?
Since you brought it up... Just how good (or fast or young and pretty) do you think the dealers would be if they were just mere minimum wage highschool dropouts that didn't earn tips, like the ones that **** up your order at the McD's drive-thru and have you screaming at your windshield the whole way home about how hard it is to not put onions on your dbl cheese?
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 11:07 PM   #8365
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 14,763
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suit View Post
Since you brought it up... Just how good (or fast or young and pretty) do you think the dealers would be if they were just mere minimum wage highschool dropouts that didn't earn tips, like the ones that **** up your order at the McD's drive-thru and have you screaming at your windshield the whole way home about how hard it is to not put onions on your dbl cheese?
Probably a little worse than the low end of WSOP dealers.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2018, 05:22 AM   #8366
bolt2112
veteran
 
bolt2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 2,352
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
Probably a little worse than the low end of WSOP dealers.
How many WSOP dealers are there? By my rough calculation, they have about 300 tables at the WSOP (+/- 100). That's a minimum of 1000 temporary dealers they're hiring for a 6 week event. And to muddy the waters a bit, they're also hiring hundreds of temporary dealers at the Venetian for the deep stack series which takes place at the same time. And I'm pretty sure the Bellagio also runs some big tournaments as well.

It's reasonable to estimate that there are 1500 additional dealers working in Vegas during the WSOP compared to December.

By reputation, the WSOP is one of the most brutal events to work as an event dealer. I know some event dealers who have no interest at working that event and are happy to stay busy at the Wynn or Venetian for a month or two rather than deal with the WSOP.

Compare this to the Hard Rock series which just completed in South Florida. They have their regular crew working in the 40 table room, which gets busier than normal, with lots of high limit games spreading during their series. And in the tournament room, which takes place in the event center, they have maybe 100 tables (probably less). Which works out to about 300 event dealers who come into town for that series.

It should come as no surprise that the Hard Rock gets to pick only the most experienced traveling dealers for their event. Whereas, the WSOP isn't getting all of those 300 dealers, because a good amount of them are working at other Las Vegas strip rooms instead. And even if they were all at the WSOP, that would only make up about 1/3 of their staff.
bolt2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2018, 02:38 PM   #8367
Reducto
adept
 
Reducto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the wind
Posts: 1,093
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

HR doesn't hire anywhere near 300 dealers for the events. If they have 100 tables in the event center (I haven't been there since they moved from the big meeting room so I don't know the actual number) they're likely hiring around 125-150 dealers. 1000 is about right for WSOP.

HR gets better traveling dealers than most events because the pay and conditions are better. Being in South Florida in Winter is pretty nice as well.
Reducto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 05:18 AM   #8368
CupOfSalt
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 199
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCforME View Post
Just thinking of all the entitled dealers around the U.S. who expect tips for doing absolutely nothing boils my blood. How is dealing cards a middle class profession? Grrrr. The porters who clean up food are working twice as hard as you and they always smile and say a sincere thank you when given their only buck of the day.

I am enacting a new policy of only tipping fast dealers, dealers who encourage straddling/coddle the fish, and pretty young women. $1 and thatís it.
Dealing, and dealing well as a matter of fact, is a skill. It's something that needs to be learned, practiced, perfected, and maintained.

I find it very common that players who have been "playing for 20 years" think they could deal a live action game.
CupOfSalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #8369
Indynirish
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 58
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CupOfSalt View Post
Dealing, and dealing well as a matter of fact, is a skill. It's something that needs to be learned, practiced, perfected, and maintained.

I find it very common that players who have been "playing for 20 years" think they could deal a live action game.
Well, one could argue it takes more training to work at McDonalds. If you took a mediocre player, and told he/she they were going to deal for a down or two, and didn't tell any of the other players that this "test" was about to happen, I find it likely noone would even notice. Might be slower, might make some mistakes, and I doubt anyone would think anything was out of the norm.

But if took a mediocre person who eats at McDonalds, and told them they were going to be manning the counter, drive thru window, or cooking the burgers without any training and practice, this would likely be pandemonium in the ring.
Indynirish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 11:29 AM   #8370
iraisetoomuch
Using one time every time
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 18,714
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Your example is possibly correct, except that there's a crucial issue with your comparison.

The average player in a casino spend *far* more time watching a dealer and interacting with them than the average McDonalds customer would with the Point of Sale system.

You don't spend 2 - 6 hours a weekend staring at your McDonalds cashier and critiquing many of their moves.


Beyond that, I still disagree. Self checkout at McDonalds (and many grocery stores) strongly suggests we could in fact do a large part of what they do.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 02:26 PM   #8371
AllJackedUp
veteran
 
AllJackedUp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Making fish dreams come true.
Posts: 2,396
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I tip my dealers, but other than "it's tradition," I don't really understand why I'm tipping. If it is to ensure the dealers make a livable wage, then I'm annoyed that it is somehow my responsibility to provide wage rather than the employer's.

Electronic tables make a ton of sense to me and I often wonder how long it will be until they take over.
AllJackedUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 04:14 PM   #8372
football0020
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 129
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indynirish View Post
Well, one could argue it takes more training to work at McDonalds. If you took a mediocre player, and told he/she they were going to deal for a down or two, and didn't tell any of the other players that this "test" was about to happen, I find it likely noone would even notice. Might be slower, might make some mistakes, and I doubt anyone would think anything was out of the norm.

But if took a mediocre person who eats at McDonalds, and told them they were going to be manning the counter, drive thru window, or cooking the burgers without any training and practice, this would likely be pandemonium in the ring.
I think "might be slower" is a huge understatement, the game would come creeping to a turtle pace and players would quickly start to get agitated. But poker players would definitely catch on much quicker than if you just hired some random person off the street. Players already know how the game works and how to read hands, but if you're expecting someone who has never pitched cards or dealt a live action game before to just come in and be a bit slower and maybe make a few mistakes, you're fooling yourself.
football0020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 04:29 PM   #8373
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 14,763
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllJackedUp View Post
I tip my dealers, but other than "it's tradition," I don't really understand why I'm tipping. If it is to ensure the dealers make a livable wage, then I'm annoyed that it is somehow my responsibility to provide wage rather than the employer's.

Electronic tables make a ton of sense to me and I often wonder how long it will be until they take over.
They'll take over when video craps takes over from real craps
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 10:07 AM   #8374
answer20
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 6,345
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Too many conspiracy theorists out there for casinos to go 'virtual'. Although I really did enjoy my electronic table poker experience on a cruise .. both cash and tournament play went off with very little issue. Certainly could speed up the game and rebuy/add-ons for sure once you set up your credit line. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 11:50 PM   #8375
bolt2112
veteran
 
bolt2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 2,352
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indynirish View Post
Well, one could argue it takes more training to work at McDonalds. If you took a mediocre player, and told he/she they were going to deal for a down or two, and didn't tell any of the other players that this "test" was about to happen, I find it likely noone would even notice. Might be slower, might make some mistakes, and I doubt anyone would think anything was out of the norm.

But if took a mediocre person who eats at McDonalds, and told them they were going to be manning the counter, drive thru window, or cooking the burgers without any training and practice, this would likely be pandemonium in the ring.
I'd imagine I could teach a class of high school algebra without any training more easily than I could work the drive thru at McDonalds without training.
bolt2112 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online