I know what you mean, man. This one time, I was at a restaurant, and when the bill came, it said "service not included" at the bottom. So, naturally, I asked the waitress to borrow a pen, wrote "good " underneath that line, and handed it back to her with the exact money for the bill.

When I played roulette in Switzerland (maybe it was Austria?) they automatically took tips from every payout. This would have been 10-15 years ago.

Shut her up = she did not rebut my reply to her statement about "people tipping in US casinos"

1. I played roulette and was winning
2. Dealer told me players tip dealers in US casinos
3. I told her why i will not tip despite of my win
4. Conversation ended there and then.

I guess i have to list out the chain of events for you to fully comprehend what 'actually' happened.

Well in this case you can't really control what the casino does can you? It's basically taxes. Another example would be winning a tournament or maybe the bad beat jackpot US casinos have. I would not tip for these because you paid rake to the casino or whatever the term is called for BBJ which are immensely -ev for players + taxes( for big payouts) to the government. As a non-US citizen, I am not generous enough to tip dealers in those two cases as i have paid way too much to the casino and the US government. I would only tip if the casino is where i grind daily for a living as it is important to 'get in the good books' of the dealers there. I might also tip if tips are non-pooled but it's going to require a very good and likable dealer.

I tip a dollar per pot over 10 and 2 for really big pots

It's funny that you think she didn't "rebut your reply" because you enlightened her to the logic of your position rather than the fact that it could cost her her job to argue with a customer about tipping.

The substantive comments describing the economic issues, as well as the logistical and human flaws, with your logic have been well covered. Let me add my irrelevant opinion by saying you are a smug jerk and a cheapskate. I say this knowing that any resistance you get only forces you to dig your heels in more, but I just want to plant the seed so that maybe later, in a moment of self awareness, you will realize what a tool you have been.

I just merely stated why i'm not tipping. Whether my logic enlightened her or not has no relevance to what I was trying to say. She would obviously argue with me had it not potentially cost her her job. Tips equate to her salary which equates to the very thing that puts food on the tables, it's only normal to protect that.

My whole point is that I don't owe her a living, it's the casinos. It seems that the majority of the people posting here do not get my point. Maybe perhaps the majority of you here have an agenda to not agree with me.

And again, this post obviously does not get my point. I have tipped green chips before to dealers who keep their own tips, so that definitely rules me out as being a cheapskate.

I understand that tipping is an essential culture in all services across the US, but i do not hate money enough to splash it in an industry where the consumers are already in such a bad spot.

Your post on the subject was: "But the fact that i pointed out how much in exact amounts i'm giving the casino probably knocked some sense into her that i am a big enough victim in the whole setup, and to probably make her have a little more empathy for the players. "

You didn't knock any sense or create any empathy.

Then it's fine. She said something that would increase her bottom-line. I refuted with something that would protect my bottom-line. End of story. It's going to be hard to have any empathy in this industry where your bottom-line depends entirely on the action your customers give. But trust me, I am still going to try. Have some faith.

If you're playing pit games and describing your stack as your "bottom line", you probably have bigger problems than whether to tip the dealer or not.

I didn't post here to be judged on my problems. On the contrary, I rarely visit casinos in the USA if that was what you were implying other than with college friends during the rare weekends or during WSOP to meet with friends from other countries.

I came here to post the view of the tipping culture in the USA of a non-US citizen. I paid $X amount per spin for being at the roulette table as it is exciting to watch the ball drop into the number i chose. If i paid $Y amount as tips because i am 'winning', that $Y amount will be taken off my stack, and that to me is affecting my bottom-line. It's an additional cost. Why do casinos in the US pay basic wages to their dealers? Because if they paid more, it's additional cost to them, which affects their bottom-lines. What makes the casinos' bottom-lines more important than the players in the casinos? Just because most of the players are degenerates? Or that because it is just a matter of time they go bust? That does not make their bottom-lines any less valuable than the casinos.

And thank you for reminding me i might have bigger problems to worry about other than tipping, people here don't strike me as the type to point out those sort things sincerely

I don't care much what other isolated individuals tip but I do find light entertainment value in people who rarely tip and don't care what others think of them writing screeds on their tipping philosophy.

===

More generally it's kinda funny that I support policy to help solve collective action problems not addressed by the market, but here we've created a collective action problem (free rider) out of thin air just because.... why? Because keeping proper performance metrics, which any reasonable casino does anyway, is too much effort and it's easier to just let the all-knowing customer judge employee performance?

The culture of tipping is stupid but doesn't rank in the top 1000 things we need collective action to change in the USA.

The fact that I have been called both a cheapskate and a freeloader just gives me as much entertainment as I had posting in this thread.

Kamuz,


I respect your right to think tipping is stupid, and largely agree with it. However, I’m aware of tipping conventions/expectations and tip accordingly due to the implicit contract all parties (customer, employee, owner) enter into when we engage in business together.

What I find surprising is that you choose to respect that culture/contract/convention in some instances, but not others.

See Caro's Law of Loose Wiring

I guess as a foreigner I see tipping more as a form of token of appreciation/gratitude rather than a contract/convention. Ironically, I actually notice myself more often than not tipping because ‘I have to’ rather than ‘I want to’. Most common examples are when I love a certain restaurant, or when I don’t want to get blacklisted as a stiffer from the nearest casino to my residence which pool tips(absolute nut low) that I frequent once every fortnight for poker. Those above are perfect examples again that brings back my main point which the majority in this thread fail to understand.

Maybe the guy who said the reason I do not tip for table games is because I can get away with it was right. Seems like someone in this thread is finally onto something!

"Maybe"? That was Crispen on the last page where you did gymnastics to reject the common definition of "to get away with". This conversation could have ended then if the hole in your brain that makes you feel good about not tipping didn't also make you feel pleasured by being called names on an internet forum.

I was being sarcastic but w/e done with this lol.

And no, not tipping does not make me feel good, neither does it make me feel bad. It’s just cute how you guys phrase it like i am trying to run away from something that I am ‘supposed to do’

Well kamuz...



...which is it?

In version one, you sound a raging asshat that is proud to be rude to casino staff and in version two the staff is polite and so are you.

So yah, I guess two different versions of the same story by the same person would make it hard for me "to fully comprehend what 'actually' happened", but I'd guess the first version was probably closer to the truth.

I'm sure it has never dawned on you that if everyone in the casino did what you do, the casino could not be sustainable in it's current version. The fact is, other people make up for your willful poo-pooing of the standard rules that are in place.

In other words, if everyone was a smug cheapskate like you(as someone pointed out above), the only option would be video roulette. So good luck with that

kamuz is an obvious troll and everyone keeps responding to him, just stop and he'll go away.

I live in the UK and tipping casino staff, taxi drivers etc. here is not expected like it is in the US, but I do it anyway, because I can afford to and it doesn't hurt to be nice to people whose job is to make your life easier or more entertaining. If you choose to be a cheapskate, fine, but stop trying to justify it by invoking some higher principle.

Fun (and pretty much unrelated) fact, a few months ago at a casino in Central London, I had two £10 chips for some reason, and the awkward denomination was annoying me so I threw them down on 0 while I was smoking. Without giving it too much thought I said to the croupier "one is for you" and spaced them out as 2 separate bets. He spun it in and got a fat £360 tip (although I think they pool tips in most casinos around here).

I mostly feel bad for that poor little old lady, stuck out on the Strip in her so-called "golden years," spinning a crappy roulette wheel in some grotty casino. Probably barely scraping up enough in tips every week to keep her Cat fed, and sometimes herself.

Then she snaps, just a little, when she sees some guy from a non-tipping culture taking down a big number, and she very gently reminds him that in our society we DO tip the dealer.

Only to be subjected to a lecture on the inequities of casino table games and how unfair they are to the players, this by a guy who has just stacked up $3k and makes it clear that he knows he is expected to tip but doesn't because it's only a societal norm, and not a rule or a law.

Well you sure showed her, OP. I guess she's lucky you didn't complain to the Floorman and get her fired. Of course it's not too late. You could probably go back and rat her out now.