Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Casino & Cardroom Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2018, 12:51 AM   #7726
Riverine
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: On the river
Posts: 122
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Land O Lakes View Post
That's why you ask why he rolled up to your table and gave you $20 for no reason. Then the supervisor will probably have the same response since there's no real money to chop up, but watch his answer change if the guy drops a stack of black in your box.
I don't follow your comment. Ask who? I knew why the guy did it, as I had never dealt to him before the tourney. He dropped the chips as I was dealing a hand, so I didn't even realize what was happening until he was done and thanking me. It all happened very quickly. Are you saying I should have asked the player why he did it (I knew) or are you saying I should have told the supervisor I had no idea why he did it?(that would be a lie, so that's not happening). Sorry, I'm just not sure what you're suggesting.

If the rule is the rule, I don't think the answer would have changed. Of course, hypothesizing about a player dropping a stack of black is fun, but has as much chance of happening as a player dropping a stack of 1k chips in my box.
Riverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:09 AM   #7727
Land O Lakes
Pooh-Bah
 
Land O Lakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,167
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverine View Post
I don't follow your comment. Ask who? I knew why the guy did it, as I had never dealt to him before the tourney. He dropped the chips as I was dealing a hand, so I didn't even realize what was happening until he was done and thanking me. It all happened very quickly. Are you saying I should have asked the player why he did it (I knew) or are you saying I should have told the supervisor I had no idea why he did it?(that would be a lie, so that's not happening). Sorry, I'm just not sure what you're suggesting.

If the rule is the rule, I don't think the answer would have changed. Of course, hypothesizing about a player dropping a stack of black is fun, but has as much chance of happening as a player dropping a stack of 1k chips in my box.
I'm saying there's a difference between "he told me it was for the tourney" and "there's no doubt in my mind it was for the tourney." The latter could possibly something else, particularly if you're a female. Again, if he dropped $2k in your box and thanked you for the rush of cards that cashed him $50K, then I wouldn't be surprised if the interpretation of "rule" changes slightly.
Land O Lakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:12 AM   #7728
Reducto
adept
 
Reducto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the wind
Posts: 940
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I'm a dealer and have mostly dealt tournaments. I used to hate hearing stories of other dealers pocketing tips rather than turning them in because 1) I always turn those tips in and 2) I'm usually not the one getting those tips in the first place. I'm the efficient robot players often say they want, but don't reward because they didn't even notice I was there.

I have changed my tune a bit, though. In reality those are usually not tips that would otherwise be in the pool. Maybe sometimes a player will reduce their intended tip and give the balance to a specific dealer but I suspect most times that is on top of what they'd normally give. It also improves the player's overall experience. They feel good about putting that money where they feel it should go.
Reducto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 08:21 AM   #7729
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 11,906
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Land O Lakes View Post
No he's not. A player can do whatever he wants with his money whenever he wants to. If a dealer accepts an inappropriate tip and doesn't notify the floor, then it is the dealer who is stealing from his coworkers.
That's what bolt was saying. So you agree with each other that the player is creating a situation where the dealer could steal from his coworkers.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 09:50 AM   #7730
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,551
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

The key point to this has been made .. If the Dealer knowingly accepts a tip from a tournament player then those tips should be put in the pool. I would tend to agree that the player who did a 'fly by' after a tournament score might lead a Dealer to want to make sure that they handle the tip appropriately for the room. But if I pull up to a cash table 2-6 weeks later and unload a large tip or two without comment I don't think I'm putting the Dealer into any marginal position. If the Dealer wants to go above and beyond what they are deeming 'normal' behavior, then that's up to them.

BLACK CHIP STORY
.. Was sitting at a 1/2 table and a player was leaving to go play a tournament. As he stood up a black chip fell back onto the table and sort of rolled towards the Dealer. Dealer (and half the table) notify the player ... Dealer even says "You don't want to leave one of those behind." Player picks the chip back up and says "Well, I guess it wants to be with you since it rolled your way" and then tosses it back!!

The Dealer is stunned and doesn't even want to touch the chip. Calls Floor. Explains the situation. Dealer really doesn't want a Black Chip in his toke box. I volunteer to exchange the chip for red and all is good ... followed by the slot machine sound of all 20 red birds clinking into the toke box. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:36 PM   #7731
El Diablo
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
El Diablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 69,004
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Answer,

Why didn’t the dealer want the black chip?
El Diablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:48 PM   #7732
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,551
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

The last thing a Dealer wants is to draw attention to their toke box .. even green chips can raise eyebrows 'in the back' when they go to cash out. It really shows that their job is important to them .. It's not like they are making change, so a black chip tip would be extremely unusual in this room . GL

PS .. not sure why a spike in reds wouldn't draw just as much 'interest' but working 20 reds into your box 'that don't belong there' would certainly be tougher than a 'random black'.
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 01:49 PM   #7733
Reducto
adept
 
Reducto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: In the wind
Posts: 940
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Black chip tips are rare and the dealer is probably worried that management will think it was a mistake or theft. I've actually been told to call the floor and get approval before dropping a black chip. Will I? Probably not. I'll just make sure the chip and the act of me confirming it with the player are clearly visible on camera just in case. I don't want to do anything to discourage that type of tipping

20 reds in a shift is much more common and not likely to raise a red flag. We'll occasionally get those tables where reds are flying at us like crazy. Not often, but it happens especially if there are high hand promotions going.

Last edited by Reducto; 03-08-2018 at 01:58 PM.
Reducto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 02:25 PM   #7734
Land O Lakes
Pooh-Bah
 
Land O Lakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,167
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
That's what bolt was saying. So you agree with each other that the player is creating a situation where the dealer could steal from his coworkers.
This is what you (and he) said: "...he's making that dealer an accomplice in theft from his coworkers."

Which he obviously is not doing. The dealer is either a straight-up thief (accepts the tip or keeps the money) or he's not (declines the tip or gives it to the supervisor). He is most certainly not an accomplice to theft, so I stand by my original comment: "Lol, accomplice in theft from coworkers."

That said, 100% changing the scenario to "creating a situation" where the dealer "could" steal from his coworkers, then sure - similar to a grocer is creating a situation where I could steal a candy bar by having small loose items around the store.
Land O Lakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 02:26 PM   #7735
bolt2112
adept
 
bolt2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 970
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post

BLACK CHIP STORY
.. Was sitting at a 1/2 table and a player was leaving to go play a tournament. As he stood up a black chip fell back onto the table and sort of rolled towards the Dealer. Dealer (and half the table) notify the player ... Dealer even says "You don't want to leave one of those behind." Player picks the chip back up and says "Well, I guess it wants to be with you since it rolled your way" and then tosses it back!!

The Dealer is stunned and doesn't even want to touch the chip. Calls Floor. Explains the situation. Dealer really doesn't want a Black Chip in his toke box. I volunteer to exchange the chip for red and all is good ... followed by the slot machine sound of all 20 red birds clinking into the toke box. GL
YELLOW CHIP STORY

I was dealing a $25-$25 PLO game with a mandatory button straddle several years ago to a group of very generous recreational players. These guys would play once a week and wouldn't let outsiders in the game. The play was fast, loose, and loud, and $10K+ pots were the norm.

The default tip at this table was a red bird, and green bird tips weren't at all uncommon. Obviously, the dealers all loved this game and 30 minutes at the table could turn a mediocre shift into a great shift, tip-wise.

The guy in seat 1 was always difficult and wasn't very kind to the dealers. He was known for berating the dealers and cussing them out when he wasn't running well and he would often "forget" to tip even when he was running well.

On this particular night he was in seat 1 and was in a good mood. On a couple of occasions when he won a pot, rather than throw me a chip, he'd drop a chip into my tip box instead, which was located between him and me (just to my left). Midway through a hand he noticed that he was missing a yellow chip ($1000) which I was able to confirm, as he only had 1 of them on the table, along with several stacks of black and green. After looking for it under the rail, on the floor, etc. I suggested that maybe he'd dropped it into my tip box.

Sure enough, a supervisor opened my box and there was the yellow chip, right on top of the rest of my tokes. Now that it was back in his possession, the rest of the players tried to talk the player into "hooking me up". I sat there quietly, doubtful that he'd be convinced of any tip above and beyond standard. Right as one of the players commented, "I'd probably give the dealer a black chip... the least you could do is give him a green..." the guy in seat 1 slid a red chip my way.

I'm sure I still had a phenomenal 30 minutes at that table and a great night for my tips. I do miss that game.
bolt2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 07:58 PM   #7736
poppunk
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 128
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

The casino I worked at didn't have a line for anything over $25 chips when you fill out your toke sheet at the end of the night. If I was ever tipped a black, I'd probably change it with the rack and drop green or red.
poppunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 06:21 PM   #7737
Black Aces 518
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Black Aces 518's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: same dances in the same ole shoes
Posts: 7,827
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss1 View Post
Sure, I'll play. Of course I'll still like him and I'll probably still tip him. Liking the dealer is a big factor in my books, for example, if a dealer keeps giving me pots but is a total jerk and unprofessional, I'll be struggling mightily to tip him. I'll still grudgingly have to give him something but I won't enjoy it.
This is why we think you are being ridiculous. You will reward an unprofessional jerk (which he can control) for you winning pots (which he can't control), but punish a professional dealer (which he can control) for you losing pots (which he can't control).

Maybe this will help you out: The tip is not a reward for that specific hand. The tip is a reward for providing a fair and efficient game, and custom is that the player who wins the hand takes that turn to pay the dealer. If the dealer isn't providing that, they aren't entitled to the reward.
Black Aces 518 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 10:19 PM   #7738
spring83
Jack of all trades
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,232
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
The tip is not a reward for that specific hand. The tip is a reward for providing a fair and efficient game, and custom is that the player who wins the hand takes that turn to pay the dealer. If the dealer isn't providing that, they aren't entitled to the reward.
This! Pretty insane that only maybe 10% of players think this way. Also add time as a more important factor than the size of the pot imo.
spring83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 06:34 PM   #7739
Richard32
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 230
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I won an 800 dollar pot plus a 140 dollar high hand. Is a 25 dollar tip good enough? What’s “standard”
Richard32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #7740
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 11,906
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
I won an 800 dollar pot plus a 140 dollar high hand. Is a 25 dollar tip good enough? What’s “standard”
$10 would generous ($5 for each).
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2018, 11:33 PM   #7741
DarkOne
veteran
 
DarkOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Capua
Posts: 2,042
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

I always tip more for promos. I probably would have tipped a red for the pot and another 10 when I got the high hand money.
DarkOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 03:20 AM   #7742
borg23
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7,458
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
I won an 800 dollar pot plus a 140 dollar high hand. Is a 25 dollar tip good enough? What’s “standard”
that's very generous
borg23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #7743
JDPuopolo
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 47
Re: Foxwoods Resort·Casino (Mashantucket, CT) -- FAQ in OP, updated 2018.02.26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
Negative on famous. Runner runner for the Royal over Quads. Payouts approx. 56k/30k table shares 4.2k.

Room went full retard after it was hit, no one in a 4 table radius wanted to play anymore, just people telling stories about how they were at that table an hour ago, or starting fights with the people at the table about how crappy they tipped the dealer.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk
What does everyone tip on that anyway? I hit a high hand for $1k on Monday and tipped $50 (+$2 when I scooped the pot and +$5 to the dealer who paid me the $1k when they finally got around to it). I wasn't sure if I was being cheap or generous.
JDPuopolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 06:51 PM   #7744
Big Whoop
grinder
 
Big Whoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 676
Re: Foxwoods Resort·Casino (Mashantucket, CT) -- FAQ in OP, updated 2018.02.26

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDPuopolo View Post
What does everyone tip on that anyway? I hit a high hand for $1k on Monday and tipped $50 (+$2 when I scooped the pot and +$5 to the dealer who paid me the $1k when they finally got around to it). I wasn't sure if I was being cheap or generous.
There's an entire thread dedicated to it. Anyways, for me it depends on who dealt it. I be damned if I give some of those dealers a proper tip while others would be handsomely compensated.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Big Whoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 06:51 PM   #7745
Lordkjun
centurion
 
Lordkjun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 126
Re: Foxwoods Resort·Casino (Mashantucket, CT) -- FAQ in OP, updated 2018.02.26

Personally....I give $50-$100 when I hit the $500, depending on if it's a dealer I like or just a random. I give $25 when I hit the $100. I've never hit the 1k.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk
Lordkjun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 07:48 PM   #7746
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 11,906
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDPuopolo View Post
What does everyone tip on that anyway? I hit a high hand for $1k on Monday and tipped $50 (+$2 when I scooped the pot and +$5 to the dealer who paid me the $1k when they finally got around to it). I wasn't sure if I was being cheap or generous.
That was very generous of you. I'd do the same if it were one of my friends who deal or if it were an excellent dealer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Whoop View Post
Anyways, for me it depends on who dealt it. I be damned if I give some of those dealers a proper tip while others would be handsomely compensated.
Indeed. I would take great joy in stiffing the one dealer at my "home" room who sucks, while I'd be equally happy to give a hefty tip to the many excellent dealers there.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 08:29 AM   #7747
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 5,551
Re: Foxwoods Resort·Casino (Mashantucket, CT) -- FAQ in OP, updated 2018.02.26

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDPuopolo View Post
I wasn't sure if I was being cheap or generous.
You must not play much to not know that this (10% tip) was in the 95th percentile+ for tipping. Scroll back 10-20 pages and read this thread and you will see the full gamut of opinion ... especially when it comes to promotional winnings (HH, BBJ).

Thanks for the post .. come back more often. I'm sure that all those involved appreciated your actions!! GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:47 AM   #7748
sam7595
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 61
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard32 View Post
I won an 800 dollar pot plus a 140 dollar high hand. Is a 25 dollar tip good enough? What’s “standard”
1) What % of the dealer's effort directly affects the outcome?
2) What % of the dealer's mandatory duties affect the outcome?

1) Dealer can put down cards faster or slower; in this hand the fractional microseconds time X average hourly win rate = faster efficiency proportionate relationship to win rate, but 0% as to which card comes off.

2) Dealer is required to deal all cards, but does not get to decide which card comes off, so again 0% to influence outcome.

In other areas where/when you tip, does tippee have ability to affect desired/improved outcome above/beyond requisite duties, then tip has incentive for both tipper and tippee and proportion scale can generate tip% relationship with regard to value of increased efficiency/satisfaction of desired result.

I believe tipping of poker dealers is entirely gratuitous hence the term, gratuity, and has little or otherwise no relationship to value of expected outcomes; the perception of 'luck dealer' is correlative, not causative.

I'm an admittedly Terrible Tom at the poker table - I just stopped tipping poker dealers as whole beginning about 5 years ago.

But a dealer I know socially outside the 'box' and for whom I have purchased many drinks when we socialize, did ask if I wanted to be dealt in even though I was talking with my friend at the nex table. She can deal right past me if she pleases. The smaller BBJP was hit ($25k) and at six handed, my split was $1,562.5.

Suffice it say, I took her and her sister + my gf out to nice dinner (4 course Prix-Fixe) along with all wine and cocktails. Bill is $880 for four + gratuity ($220), so I think she makes out better.

And in most cardrooms, dealers have to tip out a percentage to the floor which is just another thing I don't understand?

Last edited by sam7595; Yesterday at 04:11 AM.
sam7595 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:00 AM   #7749
sam7595
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 61
Re: Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
The tip is not a reward for that specific hand. The tip is a reward for providing a fair and efficient game, and custom is that the player who wins the hand takes that turn to pay the dealer. If the dealer isn't providing that, they aren't entitled to the reward.
1) Isn't dealer required by state gaming commision to provide fair game to start with?

2) Doesn't house, as employee performance standard require/urge/promote efficiency of dealer as this directly affects/helps rake drop which is House's primary way to generate revenue (food and beverage sales being secondary)? Yes, this is also good for player, but dealer employee is already motivated to do this as job performance evaluation criteria, so rewarding performance of standard expectation above previously agreed upon compensation says what about expectations of future performance of standard expectations?

3) Hasn't dealer, in the process of agreeing to employment agreed to a specified wage for which Player has no (individually direct) influence, i.e. I don't tell the house what the pay rate should be and I don't tell/force dealer what rate of pay they should accept?

4) Where I play, there is no specification within gaming commission regulations that states, I, as player/patron, am responsible in any way/shape/form for payment of wage to dealer.

5) If the dealer isn't performing to standards as outlined/defined by their job description and performance review, then isn't it incumbent upon House to determine continued retention of dealer employee and/or set expectation of all dealer employees in same job class? Player satisfaction being one component of individual dealer employee performance evaluation?

Last edited by sam7595; Yesterday at 04:07 AM.
sam7595 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:27 AM   #7750
sam7595
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 61
Re: Foxwoods Resort·Casino (Mashantucket, CT) -- FAQ in OP, updated 2018.02.26

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
You must not play much to not know that this (10% tip) was in the 95th percentile+ for tipping. Scroll back 10-20 pages and read this thread and you will see the full gamut of opinion ... especially when it comes to promotional winnings (HH, BBJ).

Thanks for the post .. come back more often. I'm sure that all those involved appreciated your actions!! GL
I am still of the belief that since dealer has no ability to effect outcome to my desired satisfaction, that tipping on that basis is absurd.

I don't tip a dealer because I want it to be sunny tomorrow and then when it is, I give them X based on % of cloud cover? Dealer has no affect!

Also, I may be a little over-jaded because I have had the experience of dealers pre-making change* and then giving me dirty look or saying something under breath when I am pushed pot that is more than their two week paycheck - this attitude of entitlement and expectation really disgusts me, which is one among the several reasons why I stopped tipping dealers.

* Back when I played 20/40 and the occasional 40/80 with $10 checks, since we paid a time charge, the pot was always homogenously the predominant chip, no changemaking for rake was needed. Yes, dealers had trays to make change so players could toke servers and the like, but several dealers would constantly prematurely (in anticipation) make change 'for convenience' when they have no business doing any extra handling of the pot's chips in the first place. And since dealers didn't move their own trays, just toke boxes, the floors were responsible for monitoring the hold count, so much more difficult to track individual errors in hold which were usually overages and rarely deficits meaning that dealers took too many chips out of pot...maybe 'forgetting' to put change back in...I never knew what happened to all the overage, whether it was used to even the total floor count/and just went to the House? But this just simply means dealer errors result in less player money on felt in play and to be won.

Last edited by sam7595; Yesterday at 04:37 AM.
sam7595 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online